General Category > French Sandcasts

More and more surprising!! VIN-1014046/E-1014138

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Steve Swan:
Gerard, i'm glad you contribute and i hope you continue to contribute.  in my thinking, there is no reason to doubt the French sandcasts are authentic.  we just don't have enough information to answer so many questions we have about how interesting these French sandcasts are.  looking at another thread on the French sandcasts, i see we have several known to exist.  it would be nice to have a section in the VIN Directory to list all known French sandcast Fvins and Evins.

And, Marty, thanks again for your reply.  it only makes completes sense factory would keep vin records.  if we had factory records, we would know the provenance of the French sandcasts.

CBman:
Sorry Guys, my name is John.
Steve, I didnīt write there are unstamped cases, but only that many engines (by my opinion) are not originaly stamped from Honda factory production. I respect you as a CB750 expert, but lets look at the VINs:
1. E-1014143 does look like Honda font, but from detail it is not. Just compere it with French Sandcast E-1017118, these fonts are different in detail.
2. E-1017199  number 9 is not Honda font. Also the surface was just grinded by someone, so hardly could be original.
3. E-1014170 I know the engine numbers were not in perfect line, but this one is really stamped very badly. Please note, that Honda at
begining of 1970 was able to stamp the engine numbers nearly perfectly (not so chaotic like on first Sandcasts), so these VINs are strange for me.
4. 4 of 8  engines have not correct frame, or were replaced.

and for 5. Still nobody has theory for special clutch cover......... Why to make special clutch cover for few units of "french sandcasts" ???  

It is everybody decision if to believe or not. But for me there is too much obscurity, my sorry to owners.

kp:
Hi John
Good arguments but I cannot agree. The 9 on all engines is same as Honda and same for both. As for lining up etc. Notice the distance between the C and B in CB. This one area where engines can and do differ I find nothing unusual there The lining up of fonts can vary and doesn't surprise me. When the diecast engines were made they had a border around the VIN pad thus making stamping numbers that much more accurate.
We can navel gaze at this all day, week, month decade but in the end one must believe or not believe (maybe a don't know is really the answer). We can't say with any certainty why this part was used or why that feature is a little different to another. I cannot put hand on heart and say the first diecast engine was 7415 or the last sandcast was 7414. I have to believe it is so but nobody has ever come up with either motor so how do we know it's correct
I choose to believe in the French Sandcasts as original Honda product. Why? I canna answer that Jimmy KP

DW69K0:
Asking for clarification-
The earlier sandcast engines only have the two digit date and E1 on the back of the top case but the "T" was not on the earlier cases, so why is it on these cases? When did it start to appear? Where theses cases cast at a different factory or different time period?

Was the "T" used for replacement cases sent to dealers or did it appear in normal production?

Can someone with an engine cast after June weigh in on the "T" casting charactor.....do other production sandcast engines have T designation charactor on their cases?
DW

4pots1969:
John,  

I think that it is necessary to be a little bit serious to have also a minimum of common sense and logic!!
And we add well enttendu has all this a good pairs of glasses..
It is completely indispensable!!

You dispute certain details of spaces, smoothing, adaptations where of chiffres???
Why not!! Because when we want to find even very subtle differences everything is good has to take!!
Especially on a HONDA CB750 SANDCAST.. It looks like more at the beginning has of the small production which looks for its marks where which gropes rather than has of the big industrial production.. It explains all these oddities!!

I took time to annalyser this morning photos about 450 numbers Sandcasts of my Computer.
And indeed I can say to you that if the numbers for the series 14000 and 17000 Sandcast after-period are not original markings Honda.. And indeed 75 % of the numbers Sandcasts which I analyzed cannot be validated as being ORIGINAL HONDA if I take into account your criteria!!

You see a resoldered clutch cover while I I see only a clutch cover Diecast which was not pierced and consider I the difference is enormous!!
They did not make these clutch covers specially for these Sandcast, they did not simply drill tenth holes and it is of an irrefutable logic.

If you find real proofs questioning the authenticity of these Sandcasts after-period do not hesitate has to let it to me know..

Gerard

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