General Category > French Sandcasts
More and more surprising!! VIN-1014046/E-1014138
Steve Swan:
over the years, there's been these special cl.covers on ebay usa. i'd need to see evidence the cl.covers were limited to only French sandcasts. for now, i don't believe the covers were exclusive for French. they've been seen on ebay in the usa. i think a couple members bought them to study...... KP ?
theories and opinions with evidence are necessary to arrive at a conclusion of "truth." with what little we know, i choose to believe the font is Honda oem. for me it's the only evidence that exists to date. we need more evidence to have a stronger conclusion about the French bikes.
as far as i'm concerned, without evidence, theories and opinions are not valid test of authenticity.
as it stands, other than the vin font, we have no other evidence to test the authenticity of the Franch bikes.
John, how do you KNOW the frame/engine combinations are not original ?
when i get a moment of free time, i will have to study again the vins.
CBman:
Jimmy,
on 1014143 the font looks like original, but when you look at it at detail you will find it is very thin. Honda letters are more wide.
About the 9 letter. It has not same width at curl, but Honda font I have seen has it.
Gerard, you are talking about different lining for engine numbers at Sandcast production. That is true, but only in the sandcast production. But your bikes are not sandcast production! Your bikes are late mass production on very late end of 1969 and beginning of 1970. VINs over 10k should be in line, if were marked from Honda production.
At 1969/70 Honda just knew some sandcasts had problem with broken cases. So why would Honda didnīt use them as replacement, but used them in mass production instead of diecast cases, which also required special clutch cover and gasket, and special engine number marking ? It means there should be another 3 different steps on production line. For me it has really no sence.
Steve, not matching (or missing frame) were mentioned in another topic. It means, that 50% french sandcasts do not have correct frames, which is also strange.
By the way, do these engines have only sandcast cases, or are sandcast engine ? As you know, sandcast engines has some different parts than diecast engines have. Hard to believe Honda had assambly complete sandcast engine among diecast engines. Can anyone asnwer this last question ?
Steve Swan:
John, you're asking lots of good questions..... now, where do we get the answers...... ??? until we get more info, there will be no answers. only theories, discussions and opinions like we are seeing here.
John, i would GUESS these sandcast cases contain period parts consistent with what one would find in a 14xxx through 17xxx engine. but..... who knows ? again, we have not sufficient information to have anything but questions and opinions.
so i guess i need to go back and read what "not matching frames" and "missing frames" is about...... i'm guessing "missing frames" means there are engines only..... with no frames.
Until there is more evidence, MY OPINION is the font is Honda oem. i won't say the font's oem on every engine, but sure looks like oem font to me.
John do you believe all font is not oem ? if you believe no font oem, then i can understand why you believe the vins are fake.
if you believe at least one vin set is oem, how do you think the oem font got on the cases ?
4pots1969:
John
Yes, we can extrapolate on height of details which are insignificant..
And you know as me that it was not still the same worker who made the marking of these numbers
on engines and there were very certainly several sets of tools to make these markings of numbers.
It is also necessary to take into account these tools which wear out and we can even add the factor
of the conscientiousness because some people worker had to make the marking better than others.
All this put kicks has end explain all these differences. We can discuss for a long time these numbers which are
more or less done well, but they will remain nevertheless numbers fact by the factory Honda and that it is a certainty...
kp:
Guys
Here is a very good example of number/stamping variations. Do I need say more KP
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HONDA-SANDCAST-CB750-KO-1969-CASES-2491-/141242520834?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20e2b5d502#ht_166wt_1026
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