FORGERY DOUBLE CUT FENDER

[kp]

Hi all, Have a look at this fender now on ebay
DEAD LINK
I reckon this is a DUDas it has the wrong (pressed steel) cable stay on the bottom bracket plus it has a hole for a plastic cable guide, which we all know the sandcast models didn't have. Now before we all get too carried away, there were some later double cut fenders that had the hole for the plastic cable guide.  Oh yes indeed there were some made but none were fitted to sandcasts so this cannot be a sandcast fender. Andy has seen one and Yours Truely owns one. Here's a pic KP
Anyone care to comment on this. I've sent an email to the Seller but I expect I'll get back the usual reply (f#*k off)
Here's a pic for those who don't do flEbay

[gtprend]

Looks like he posted a reply to your comment to him about the speedo cable holder. Probably worth more than a single cut fender, but not as much as a sandcast, double cut.

[kp]

Yes, I did get an email from the guy and he said
thanks for info, the wire bracket was cut off so I switched with another fender I had. Didn't realize they were different. one just sold on ebay for $927 with rust, dents and hole on side so.....
Well the "SO" is this, that fender is NOT A GENUINE DOUBLE CUTIt's a "ring in", a "dud", a "fake", a "copy", a "scam", "bogus", "el-crappo", "bulla the shite"
I know the other rusty fender on ebay IS a genuine double cut, but this other one isn't. Anyone who needs convincing, just look at the two pics. The rusty fender has the correct curve at the cut. The "ring in" has toooooo much curve. Also, the distance from the bracket to the front of the "ring in" fender, measured on the fender side edge, is way shorter than the rusty original. Just have a look at the pics
I hate ebay scammers, especially those that sell fake parts as originals.
I ask everyone reading this post in the next few days to send the dude an email telling him it's a fake. We need to correct this crap. Ya bin asked KP 

[chrisnoel]

Good luck on getting a double cut fender on e-bay. An Repro one just sold for $1500.00 and an original in similar condition to this fender sold for almost $1000.00.

[kp]

Hey fellas, seems I've hit a nerve with the Fender Bender Scammer. Just got this email from him. He responded to my email with the following

ok I'll just toss it then. gfy!


and my reply "hee hee hee"

What! you been getting some emails from the honest people out there. They obviously don't like scammers either. Hint? Just tell the farken truth you lying scum bag. By the way, the hole wasn't drilled, it was pressed by Honda. The front cut on the other hand was done by someone other than Honda. Maybe you? 
KP 

[chrisnoel]

His claim that the hole was drilled for a later model speedo cable holder would be possible but the fender is without a doubt a later fender that has been cut off. Take a look at the edge where the fender was cut. An original would have been cut then had the sides rolled over. Rolling the sides after the cut produces the edge being further back on the underside. The side edge under this fender is not further back. It was cut after the fact and lines right up with the front edge. On an original you can even see the wire sticking out on the underside as you can on the rusty one. If you'r gonna make a forgerie sell it as such. Heck forgeries of sandcast oil filter covers sell pretty high and I'm sure a fender would too.

[kmb69]

Is this the same fender that sold for 399.00 on flea-bay today?

Item number: 320567208466 HONDA 1969/70 CB750 K0 SANDCAST FRONT FENDER, CUT, RARE

[chrisnoel]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA-1969-70-CB750-K0-SANDCAST-FRONT-FENDER-CUT-RARE-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem4aa34b6a12QQitemZ320567208466QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Hard to tell but if someone bought it with that gromet sticking out like a sore thumb they proably knew what they were getting.  A little disclosure would go a long way though. 

[chrisnoel]

Anther forgerie up for sale.  Looks like a gromet hole in the thrid picture.  I don't waist my time asking these people questions or trying to give them advice but I do want to make sure none of us gets ripped off. He's obviously omitting the fact that it's a later fender but sliping the third picture in and hoping you don't look close. 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SANDCAST-HONDA-CB750-FRONT-FENDER-1969-1970-K0-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem255e6c55bdQQitemZ160497948093QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Steer far and wide away from this one and good luck on your projects. 

[kettle738]

I would like to learn from this.........what exactly makes you think this front mudguard is a forgery, given that some K0s have double cut mudguards with a pressed grommet hole?

Is it just the use of the term sandcast in the description?

I have two double cut front mudguards, one on the bike, one awaiting chrome, and as far as I can tell they are both pukka.  I also have a single cut mudguard and brief examination suggests that one had a rolled edge at both ends at some stage.

I take the point made earlier in the thread about the nature of the folded edge on a genuine double cut being specific as the metal was cut before it was pressed and folded, but as further confirmation of originality or otherwise, what should the distance be between the front stay and the leading edge at the sides and centre?.............or do they vary?

I'm quite happy to post photos of the underside of my double cut that is off the bike if it helps.....

Mick............kettle738

[chrisnoel]

Have never seen a double cut with gromet hole that was not cut some time later in its life.  Length of my double cut fender is 36+1/4" from front edge to the back as measured around the outer circumfrance.  I'll be one of the first to admit I don't know everything and practically anything could have been done by Honda back in the days these things were built.  Inside of my wrinkle tank is a perfect example of Honda trying new things as they went along.  It looks like they tried to roll the wrinkles out on an English wheel or some other metal working tool.  Till proven wrong on the fenders correctly restoring a sandcast or early CB750 will always be double cut no gromet hole.    

One thing that raises an eyebrow for me on this latest fender is the low starting price.  The guy has an original set of no number pipes for $499.00 each but starts the fender low.  If the fender were original he could start it at the same price and watch it fly out the door.  Instead he takes a distant photo of the hole, none of the under edges and puts no reserve on it.  Sadly it sold for 499.00 anyways so some poor sucker got burned.  Hope it wasn't one of us.

[1941wld]

IS THIS A REAL SANDCAST FRONT FENDER OR A CB450 FRONT FENDER? ANY HELP IS WELCOME.
THANKS,
1941WLD

Hi,
I've added some more pictures. Is this a real sc front fender?

[Steve Swan]

The center bracing to accomodate caliper appears same as CB750/K1.  CB450 for 69 had a drum brake, the bracing was quite different.

[kp]

The rear brace where it mounts on the fender should be round not square but other than that it looks correct. Always hard from pictures. If the centre brace fits a CB750 as indicated by Steve then you have a double cut KP