Build dates

[Wayne]

Hi!

This is a reprint of an article made of a motorcycle-magasine in Sweden called “ClassicBike”. It was I ClassicBike nr 5, 2009, for the 40-year anniversary. The magazine had an intervjeu with Bob Jameson himself and I believe everything in the article is correct. Now they have made a reprint of just the article for the 50-year anniversary. Classic Honda Club Sweden got a lot of them for the yearly motrcyclefair last weekend, 25, 26 and 27 of January, 2019. I was there with #24/43, #7258/7414, my pure CR750 and a Z 50 Monkey. Out of my bikes we had about another 15 Honda-bikes, mainly CB750.

In the future I will make a translation from Swedish to English for you but not now because I do not have time at the moment.

On page 6, in previous magazine 30, you have the picture Stewe mentioned. In the Swedish text you can read: “It is end of March and snow is still outside Honda Motor Co. Bob Jameson has put a CB750 Four to make a picture of some of the persons in the Japanese testteam he worked together with. This BlueGreen CB750 from 1969 will show the start of showing the models”.

On page 11, magazine 35, shows a picture I remember and the text is as following:

“A historical moment. The first CB750 assembles on the line in Hamamatsu. There were many employees who wanted to cooperate this moment. Date is 15 of March, 1969 and it is Bob Jameson who used his halfsize camera”.

Kind Regards, Bo from Sweden

[Steve Swan]

Hi!

This is a reprint of an article made of a motorcycle-magasine in Sweden called “ClassicBike”. It was I ClassicBike nr 5, 2009, for the 40-year anniversary. The magazine had an intervjeu with Bob Jameson himself and I believe everything in the article is correct. Now they have made a reprint of just the article for the 50-year anniversary. Classic Honda Club Sweden got a lot of them for the yearly motrcyclefair last weekend, 25, 26 and 27 of January, 2019. I was there with #24/43, #7258/7414, my pure CR750 and a Z 50 Monkey. Out of my bikes we had about another 15 Honda-bikes, mainly CB750.

In the future I will make a translation from Swedish to English for you but not now because I do not have time at the moment.

On page 6, in previous magazine 30, you have the picture Stewe mentioned. In the Swedish text you can read: “It is end of March and snow is still outside Honda Motor Co. Bob Jameson has put a CB750 Four to make a picture of some of the persons in the Japanese testteam he worked together with. This BlueGreen CB750 from 1969 will show the start of showing the models”.

On page 11, magazine 35, shows a picture I remember and the text is as following:

“A historical moment. The first CB750 assembles on the line in Hamamatsu. There were many employees who wanted to cooperate this moment. Date is 15 of March, 1969 and it is Bob Jameson who used his halfsize camera”.

Kind Regards, Bo from Sweden

thank you Bo for this great interpretation and thank you Wayne for posting Bo's contribution.  when you have time, i look forward to reading more.  i distinctly remember Bob Jameson telling us at the 2009 meet that #1 was hand assembled by the different engineers involved in the design of different parts of #1.  

if i stop to reflect on the logistics of having these parts ready to build #1 and also reflect on the parts as they were made to build a production motorcycle, it stand to no small reason the distinctions and the repairs we find should be expected.  Honda was the very first company to begin mass production of an ultimately highly successful motorcycle powered by a transverse four cylinder engine.  Although MV Agusta and the Munch Mammoth had achieved production status, pretty much only Friedel Munch was responsible for he construction of each of his Mammoths and an estimated less than 500 machines were produced, so in reality the Mammoth hardly qualifies as a production machine.  the early MV's were also hand built and although numbers were more than the Mammoth, the MV 4 was expensive in contrast to other machines and could no have mass availability or appeal to retail buyers.

[markb]

I have no record of this but I thought that production ran from June to September 1969. Am I mistaken?

So are we saying that production ran from March until September?

[kmb69]

Awesome guys!
I look forward to Bo's full translation.

[vnz00]

Yes, we were shooting the breeze about this very subject Mr Swan

We also know from Steven, his waffle cover is dated latish April and only about 250 engines had these covers.

I remember this topic which was a rough calculation of production numbers based on 15 March 69 to September:

http://cb750sandcastonly.com/smf_forum/index.php/topic,2036.0.html

KP there may be a misunderstanding - the 44.4.30 cover I have is a 'type 3' style sandcast cover, not SS's 'type 1' diamond waffle cover.  I thought SS had initially said it was a 44.3.24 production on his type 1 waffle cover, but he has mentioned now that it is a 44.3.4 cover.  Im not sure how it all fits together but I thought Id better clarify.


Steven.

[vnz00]

Keith, I also wondered about a bike's build date, based on the stampings on the individual parts.
I recently bought a parts lot of early sandcast parts, in nice clean condition, with date stamps still present.
The rocker cover was 44.4.30
The rockers were 44.6.2
The clutch pack was 44.5.26

So these engine parts were a little over a months time frame of each other.  Presumably you could use the latest manufacture date as an approx. of when the engine was assembled, especially if you had a pretty original complete bike, with stamps on the frame parts as well.  But the caveat may be that casting dates vs inspection dates.  Does anyone know for sure what the ink stamps represented? 

Steven

[Steve Swan]

Yes, we were shooting the breeze about this very subject Mr Swan

We also know from Steven, his waffle cover is dated latish April and only about 250 engines had these covers.

I remember this topic which was a rough calculation of production numbers based on 15 March 69 to September:

http://cb750sandcastonly.com/smf_forum/index.php/topic,2036.0.html

KP there may be a misunderstanding - the 44.4.30 cover I have is a 'type 3' style sandcast cover, not SS's 'type 1' diamond waffle cover.  I thought SS had initially said it was a 44.3.24 production on his type 1 waffle cover, but he has mentioned now that it is a 44.3.4 cover.  Im not sure how it all fits together but I thought Id better clarify.

Steven.

Steven, i can't remember the date code, what i posted on DB is what i thought i remembered so i am likely wrong. 

the date code i gave you when we started talking about you buying the cover from me is the date code.  the middle number is readily visible.  when i held the cover at the right angle in direct light i could see the prefix and suffix numbers and although very faint, the numbers are definitely readable!  so you should be able to see the number yourself if your eye is good enough.

that 44.3.24 code you said i initially said sounds correct and if i said it to you initially then that is the number i visualized, march 24, 1969.

[vnz00]

Thanks for clarifying Steve.  I took a pic of it but really need to have a close look too.

[Steve Swan]

here's some other thoughts i have on the matter.

the real question which we may never know is when production post-CB750-1000001 actually began.  unless i am missing something the group of engineers Bob Jameson said he spent time with finished hand assembling #1 on March 15.  based on what we see in the owners manual on what may or may not be parts used a production unit vs. ?, it makes me wonder what parts may or may not have been available on March 15 to have actual assembly line begin.  or not.  i guess one could surmise that if the group of engineers hand assembled #1, that the assembly line may not have been up and running.  just having the assembly line up and running would have been quite a process in its self.  i would guess certain workers at the factory were selected to go on the CB750 assy.line, such as perhaps people who had been on the 450 line, considering up until the 450, if i am not mistaken, the 450 was the only machine to have a cradle frame, all others, the engines hung off the frame...

fwiw, one perhaps interesting thing is that the vin directory lists 19 two digit frames and 13 two digit engines and we have three 3 digit engines in three 2 digit frames.  in terms of the higher Evins being in lower Fvins, about the only thing i can suggest is there were more complete engines available than there were all the parts required to hang from a frame to assemble a complete motorcycle....  i would suspect Honda made all their engine parts in house except for probably seals as we know Sochiro himself was a master piston ring manufacturer.  that being said, a number of frame ancillary parts were not produced in house and so perhaps because there were so many parts that went to the chassis as yet not available in production line quantities, and engines were a much more "contained" assembly than a complete chassis, that this somehow affected why we see higher Evins in lower Fvins....

[Steve Swan]

Thanks for clarifying Steve.  I took a pic of it but really need to have a close look too.

you might want to use a magnifying glass if you can't see it with your naked eye.  the entire date code IS there.

[Don R]

 I've often thought it would have been interesting to have witnessed the building momentum of the 750 factory, from a few bikes, to a few a week, to a few a day, then dozens, then hundreds,  etc, etc,