Honda CB750 Sandcast

1969 Diecast/ K0 restoration

UK Pete · 135 · 75808

Steve Swan

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As long as there is no galling, significant surface errosion or other defects, replacing the bearing should be all that is required.  If there's wobble, is the shaft bent ?


Wayne

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Sorry Steve. I meant the looseness of the front sprocket on the shaft splines allowing the sprocket to wobble. Thought a new shaft might tighten it up a bit??
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slyguy

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Now that I got an old 750, I got in touch with my ole friend who I worked with/for back in the early 70's fixing motorcycles. He was well known in the area for his expertise and specialized building street race engines in particuliar (he was a certified Honda tech too). These first models had the skinny bearings that would fail/seize causing shaft breakage...which would also usually take out the rear case halves too..:( Honda developed a dbl. roller bearing which corrected this problem and since the bearing width is greatly increased, sunseqently the collar/shaft is wider too and best to replace both at the same time. In fact when I contacted him on this early 750, that was one of the first things he reminded me to do"Replace that output shaft and bushing"! LOL!
I was just thinking...Prolly more so if you get on it and/or holeshots maybe? iirc he said the bearing gets dry and/or it seizes...
« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 03:32:56 pm by slyguy »
bone stock 4/70-103xxxx


hondasan

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Apparently, "back in the day", output shaft bearing failures were known to occur, also chain breakages. I do wonder how much of it was down to the use of inferior / badly worn and/or adjusted chains (if chain tension is too tight for any reason, it will give that output bearing a hard time, particularly as chain tension changes as the rear suspension goes up and down). My#5298 when stripped at 32,000 miles ran well enough, but did have some pitting of one of the output shaft bearing races maybe due to it having stood for many years (roller /ball bearings do not hold oil when stood, and so can dry out and suffer light corrosion due to condensation or damp, which can then cause bearing track pitting). Both bearings were changed of course, but only with the original single row ones (genuine NOS Honda parts)
#5298 now has 122,000 miles on it, so 90,000 miles (UK touring two up,track days, hard use on the Isle of Man TT circuit, etc) on those replacement "skinny" bearings. I do not believe it is necessary to upgrade if good quality modern chains are used (I use DID or RK heavy duty type non "O" ring type with the press fit side plate/split link) and correctly maintained, which in my case includes fitting of a new chain every time the rear tyre is changed.

It is possible to fit the later K3 type double roller output bearing into earlier engines, but only if the later output shaft is also fitted. For those that are worried about bearing failure, I suppose that would be a way to upgrade, although the double row bearing will still not be fully supported by the crankcases due to the casting thickness in that region being less in sandcast cases than in the later K3 cases which the double row bearing is intended to fit.

Just my experiences / view - we should each do whatever we feel comfortable with.

Cheers - Chris R.
Chris R.
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UK Pete

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Very interesting, now i have a shall i or shall i not situation, i will have a good inspection tommorrow to access the situation, my thoughts are that the bike has managed 43 years on the skinny bearing so as long as the shaft is good then maybe just do the bearing


slyguy

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I'm trying to get add. info on the output bearing. Also, hey Pete, what'd ya do to get the battery box/components/wiring soo clean anyways?
bone stock 4/70-103xxxx


slyguy

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More on the output shaft. Evidently "in 1972 Honda issued a dealer change order on existing inventory and then changed the parts (Bearing and shaft) because of bearing failure and then added a chain guide so if disaster struck, the chain would feed out the bottom of the sprocket without punching a hole in the engine case. The old bearing was a 6305 and was changed to 5206 double row radial ball bearing." Of course back then were different times and alot of folks rode 'em much harder than a vintage collector would these days. That being said, it might just be that that was a strong contributing factor of the failure? I don't know as of yet but Honda proactively stepped up with a design change undoubtedly either to fend off negative product image and/or the cost of warranty repairs. 
bone stock 4/70-103xxxx


UK Pete

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Slyguy, the battery box was powder coated, all the rubbers were cleaned in soapy water and silicon spray, the soleniod was polished with metal polish, its fixing bracket, and any nuts bolts and washers zinc plated and yellow passivated, the regulator was replaced with a good clean one from ebay, although i have dismantled the old one and plated that as well but i think the ebay one looks better, i resprayed the rectifier and cleaned the wiring with thinners, and the battery wire is a new one from Honda, i have to say i was really pleased with the outcome, i dont usually bother to this extent with the hidden stuff , but i want this bike to have the WOW factor and it is a challenge to get reasonable detail

As for the output shaft thanks for the info, i do have a k7 one somewhere so i could upgrade , like you say though being a vintage collector and enthusiast and having to share my time with 24 bikes its not going to be worked hard, to be honest i will probably do less than 2000 miles a year, so skinny bearing it is, keeping the bike as it was built
Pete


steff750

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hi guys, a quick word of caution regarding changing outshaft bearings from later k models to the k0. i tried to go down this road years ago when i had a spare k4 engine laying around, and i know the double bearing output shaft that i tried to use did not fit ,although it was a thicker bearing it was thinner on the outside and was a sloppy fit in the cases and of course there is no locating groove , so i stuck with the proper setup,it could well be that earlier k3 and k2 bearings fit as Honda always upgraded the later models its your choice really, but i prefer to keep them as they came from the factory. BTW nice job so far pete . ;)


UK Pete

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I restored  the the seat catch,  was really pleased how it  came out, its another small bit to tick off the list







UK Pete

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Another busy weekend on the bike, made myself up a long plating tank so i could do the long things like engine bolts, and brake rod, then plated the brake rod
below is it just out the tank before passivating




I then spent all of yesterday prepping the engine cases, and spraying them, let them dry overnight , then oven cured the paint today, as i type this they are just cooling down, the good thing now is i can proceed to check all the bits and rebuild the engine bottom








markb

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Nice work!  There's nothing better than working on nice "new" cases.  :)
Mark B
1969 CB750 sandcast #97 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1969 CB750 sandcaxt #576 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1553 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1990 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #5383 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1970 CB750 K0 restored - Sold
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UK Pete

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steve, i used simoniz engine enamel, after baking it in the oven for 1.5 hours at 220' it is rock hard and has a good finish, i am going to spray up a bit of metal with the stuff, bake it and then try the petrol test on it

Mark , yes you are right it is so enjoyable building up an engine when the parts are all clean ,
Pete