Honda CB750 Sandcast
The Restoration Shop => VIN's => Topic started by: Joe K on February 22, 2010, 08:35:35 pm
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Should all the sandcast frames have the vin plates on them? I may be getting a sandcast frame, but the vin plate is missing. It does have the vin etched into the other side of the neck.
Also the frame has been cut on the two top tubes above the cam cover. Can this be repaired by a good welder while maintaining the integrity of the performance at high speeds. Or not worth pursuing?
Please let me know your thoughts.
Thank you,
Joe
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Hi there,
On my sandcasts the frame vin is stamped into the headstock....not on the "vin plate". The vin plate only contains company information.....so as long as the vin is stamped in the frame, I wouldn't not buy it for that reason. My opinion FWIW
Steve
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Steve,
OK, thank you for the information. I have an early diecast and it has both the vin stamped on the headstock and the plate.
Joe
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i could be wrong here but im sure they are all stamped on the frame by honda and the vin plate is added later when it is registered by the american market that is why you get age of manufacter in the usa while in the uk we get date of registraion on logbook and no vin plate
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I will eventually need a plate for my early sandcast. Does anyone reproduce these? A picture of the correct plate and location would be helpful.
Thanks
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Since the vin plates look is identical on all CB750's (I assume), did Honda manufacture them and put the frame number on them? Who would be putting them on for the American market? Honda USA?
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As best we know, according to the vin directory, only the 9/69 sandcasts had the riveted on alumuinum vin plate. To date, we have not noted (yet) any 8/69 machines with this plate. To the best of our knowledge, except for 9/69 sandcasts, an adhesive sticker was used and did not have vin on it. All CB750's have the vin stamped on the LH head stock. The stickers and riveted on plates were on the RH head stock. Perhaps Yamiya, DSS or CMC has them..... ?
Would be great to hear if anyone has an 8/69 sandcast with a riveted on plate.
Some time ago, we requested owners to check their RH headstock so we could get a better idea when the earliest frame vin was than had this riveted on plate.
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Steve i think your on the money for the US market bikes, the Sandcast bikes sold here in Australia had the stick on alloy plate like you had on the early bikes, this had a space for the vin but was not stamped. I have seen repo ones being offered by this guy, and he does plates for the little Honda Z50's he may do the CB750 rivited plates if enough people wanted them, anyhow check out the link and ask him about the early Z50 K1 id plate from 1969 i believe they are the same as fitted to the early US and most other market CB750 Sandcast bikes TC
http://stores.shop.ebay.com/Jerrys-Z50-Stuff__W0QQ_armrsZ1
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+1 For what it is worth, both of my sand cast bikes have both the stamped VIN and the adhesive aluminum decal. Both of the decals are "generic" -- there is no VIN and no date on them.
EDIT: this for bikes #3351 & #4858
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Can someone please take a photo of their decal on the right side of the neck of the frame and post it? The one I am referring to is the one without a vin stamp on it.
Thank you,
Joe K
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Not a great pic but if you just need to see what it looks like, here it is (click on it to enlarge).
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As best we know, according to the vin directory, only the 9/69 sandcasts had the riveted on alumuinum plate w/ vin and date of mfgr stamped on tag.
To date, we have not noted (yet) any 8/69 machines with this riveted on plate.
Would be great to hear if anyone has an 8/69 sandcast with a riveted on plate.
Some time ago, we requested owners to check their RH headstock and write in, to get a better idea when the earliest frame vin was than had this riveted on plate.
Pre-9/69 frames use adhesive tag, no vin, no date stampings on these tags.
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Thank you, markb1.
I have attached the link to the Ebay listing that sells the tag for anyone who needs one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360224365756&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT
They are brushed aluminum and a little pricey, but worth it.
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If anyone need one of these lets all get together and I'll ask Jerry if he will give us a better price on a quantity of these. Does anyone need one of these? I do.
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I'd be interested in 1 or 2.
Mark
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These are just decals, they are not mounted on an alumium plate. I don't think this is what we are looking for.
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Here is a picture of 09/69 vin plate and a few other pictures of the other decal locations.
Would a 06/69 have these same decals other than the vin plate in these locations?
I'm asking to be sure I'm installing my new decals in the right place.
Is there a decal that goes on the gas tank below the gas cap?
Also should I have decals on the shocks? Thanks, Conrad
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my experience w/ a sandcast, only decals are the oil level on RH side cover, the exhaust specs on RH swing arm and "DeCarbon" stickers on each shock.
"K0" had the tire specs on rear fender
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Tire specs label on rear fender only from 1013459 though, according to the parts list.
UK market machines (VINS 1010369 onwards) did not have the swing arm label, but did have a "Honda Motor Co, Made in Japan" label on the right side of the frame neck INSTEAD of the US market VIN plate. Other markets may also have differed too.
Chris R.
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I've seen one sandcast (#5979) with the tire spec label under the seat on the black plastic inner fender as in the picture above.
Can anyone confirm this location on their bike?
Thanks,
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Here is a VIN plate to ponder. The number is also stamped into the left side of the frame. Before I started in on the restoration I discussed this bike with Vic World to confirm it was a real sandcast. Our theory was that Honda may have damaged the frame and rebuilt it or issued a replacement as a warranty in late 69. The engine is 1001682. The bike is a mix of early and late items. It has a right side horn. It has a cut front fender but with a hole. It has a two bolt rear fender with a tire spec on the chrome. I would be interested in any other thoughts on this VIN plate.
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That build date of 12/69 makes it extra mysterious. :o
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Fascinating ! ???
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If you serch on eBay, you can find sellers who can stamp the frame number on these plates.
They are specialized in restoration of Z50 and similar minibikes.
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Corsa65, Do you have more photos of the bike and an engine number. This what this site is all about .......... discovery. KP
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The pins fixing the plate to frame appear to have been replaced. If i recall correctly, original pins are brass.......... ? Not aluminum. Not saying the plate is not original, but i'm not sure the pins are what one sees from the factory. The RH hole in tag appears distorted.......... ?
???'corsa65' ??? could you provide more pics ?
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I'm pretty sure the pins on my K0 were zinc plated steel. Steve, you're right about the hole. It looks like the tag has been removed/replaced.
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I'm a naught boy ;D. I just had to have a play with that picture :o
(http://cb750k0only.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10003/IMG_11085B35D.jpg)
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Yes, i agree with Steve.
I've a couple of original pins, available from Honda Italy.
Made in brass, really are small spiral screws with dome.
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You are correct. The plate was removed and reattached by me after painting the frame.I'm the one who buggered the hole up while drilling out the rivet. The replacement rivet was almost an exact copy, the original being aluminum, I believe. Kp, my original post had the engine number 1001682. Attached is a photo of the bike as I found it in Yuba City, CA. Tomorrow I'll send a photo of the engine and frame number when I go into the office. Ill send a photo of the restoration status also.
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Hi Lester, I believe you. We are a cautious lot and given you hadn't offered much in your post; well I spose we're all making sure somebody is not yanking our chain. Yes I did see that you had an engine number listed but I was asking more or less to discount that a die-cast motor hadn't been used. We do know there is a sandcast motor fitted to a 14xxx VIN frame so anything was possible with Honda in those days. I'm actually looking forward to your pictures and not just the frame VIN, but the whole bike generally. Please keep us posted. :)
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This is an interesting one!
The plate does look aged as in from '69 (ie the anodized finished has faded to a brownish colour as they do), and I had guessed it had been off for frame re-paint. NOS replacement rivets are available, but do come bright rather than brass finish.
KP's comment about 12/69 suiting a 1016xxx is spot on in terms of what we would usually expect to see, but the French 1014xxx sandcast should have taught us never to say never! The comment about it being held over for re-work in the factory seems to hold water?
Interesting comment (for me) was also the reference to it being a right side horn frame, definitely not the norm at that VIN.
Seems it is another of those fascinating examples that keep turning up. Look forward to seeing the frame / engine stampings.
Cheers - Chris R.
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First up is a rather poor photo taken about over a year ago. I'm posting because it is the only photo that catches the vin plate on the unrestored frame, complete with overspray from the previous owner.
Frankly , at the time I had no idea that there were other vin plates or I would have documented it better.
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Now for the frame and engine numbers. If it stops raining , I'll take it outside for a better shot of the frame number tomorrow.
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current status
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Lester, Thanks for posting those pictures. There are some interesting but not surprising items on your bike. You have the early carb set as identified by the choke arm and I would be interested to know if the carb vent tubes are the 90 degree alloy type or the straight brass type. I assume these to be the stock carbs that came with the bike. So keep those items. I also note you have replaced the wiring harness however the original unrestored photo shows the early harness type. Please keep that original wiring harness as these are not easy to come by. Finally could you take a photo of the airbox (top section). I'm hoping it to be a 2 hole bracket type with or without frame indents. Also a photo of the inside of the cam cover would be of interest to me. You may have seen discussion of this in another thread but these pieces of information are of historic interest to the few anal types like myself (I'll let others speak for their themselves re that comment;D )
Would be good if you could include your project within the restoration section of the BB as Mark and Wayne have. Interestingly your engine is 1 digit below one of my sandcast bikes. Unfortunately mine is nowhere near the stage of restoration your bike is at. Again, thanks for the pics and please keep them coming as you progress. KP
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Here is a picture of Jerry Ure's decals. He does not make these on a plate, they are decals. He sells on ebay if you would like one. He can change the vin number and date to match your bike. Good people!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA-CB750-MODEL-HEADTUBE-TAG-FRAME-DECAL-REPRO-/150553473946?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item230dafb39a (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA-CB750-MODEL-HEADTUBE-TAG-FRAME-DECAL-REPRO-/150553473946?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item230dafb39a)