Honda CB750 Sandcast
Buy and Sell => Motorcycle's For Sale => Topic started by: Steve Swan on May 01, 2013, 09:38:00 am
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Seller of this bike for the original owner's widow asked me to post this on our DB; likely will be on ebay soon. This motorcycle has 10mm stems, 17 liter tank, #28 caps, probably original front Dunlop, a replaced rear Goodyear and some (if not all) correspondence from Honda to orig.owner. This motorcycle appears to be an unmolested original; placed in careful storage by orig.owner from 1976 til a couple days ago. The orig.owner continued to license the bike into the later 70's, but never put the stickers on the plate. Seller has done minimal cleaning, does not plan to start or do anything else to the bike. This is a fine example for our restorer's eyes to examine. Would really be nice to see this bike close up.
http://s1241.photobucket.com/user/carlj8/library/1969%20Honda%20CB750%20Sandcast%20FOR%20SALE (http://s1241.photobucket.com/user/carlj8/library/1969%20Honda%20CB750%20Sandcast%20FOR%20SALE)
http://rmn.craigslist.org/mcy/3777554554.html (http://rmn.craigslist.org/mcy/3777554554.html)
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FANTASTIC - As original as any other sandcast I have ever seen, rear tyre excepted. A couple of things caught my eye... short ferrule on tacho cable, long on speedo cable , and 3 punch marks near to engine number.
Should make real good money - original only once after all.
Chris R.
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All I can say is WOW :o the air box has no frame relief, has the short choke lever and the later seat which looks near perfect. Seems to have mostly large 8 bolt heads as well, one rough oil line at least but unusual wear on the left foot peg. I certainly would like to own that.
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Yes, the seller commented on the L) f.peg rubber's wear. Wonder if it's related to footwear by rider or if the rubber simply has degraded and dropped off over the years.... ? Would have to look at the pics to see if the R) has any wear. I noted the 3 punch marks as well, i guess one can assume the updated cushions were used, but seems odd the 28's were not replaced. I thought the cushions and 28 updates came out the same time and the 3 p.marks indicated both updates were done...... i'd need to look at my SB's to refresh my memory.
And, yes, i noted the later type parts. This vin would seem to support Honda and Honda's suppliers had all their ducks in a row, from the parts manufacturing standpoint. Guessing the Lotus Roots, LH frame are pretty much all that separates this 1xxx vins from the later 4xxx+ vins. I was impressed by how shiny the eng.covers are and the condition of the plastic coat.
I'm told the owner was pretty fastidious, bike's condition would support the bike was well cared for. I would be surprised if this bike was ever ridden in the rain.
Definitely a fine example for any museum.
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Yes a big WOW what a beauty. looks to have the rounded sc speedo and tach drives, which i thought were later.TC
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Steve, Sending you a PM. Definitely interested in buying this bike. Thanks, Keith
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This is a very interesting line of photo's for us to view. I hope this link stays available for a while or perhaps the photo's could be added to this site? Kind of interesting to me that a Superhawk was traded in for it.
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I agree with Chris. This bike is an one of the best examples what these bikes looked like new. Would be good to have these pics saved for reference.
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Very nice looking machine as close to correct and original from the factory as i have seen. As previously stated the pictures posted would be very good reference points during a restoration. Anybody venture to guess what the selling price will be?
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I have downloaded all of the pictures the seller posted. I'll put them up on the server with links from the BB so they can be viewed in as high of a resolution as possible. Selling price...hmmm $44,500.00. :)
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Thanks, Wayne ! You're the best !
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WOW WOW WOW
very great bike
also do you think is it the correct chain guard?? it seem to be long
thank to give me youropinion or explaim me if it"s normal
Benji
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$41,500
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$22000 max
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It is not the original short chain guard, but it is the correct longer replacement for the recalled short chain guard.
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I thought the chain guard was just upgraded to the longer one from k1,rather than recalled
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Recalled was probably the wrong terminology to use, upgrade would have been better.
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$22000 max
OK, I'll bite. Why do you think this bike will only fetch 22k bowswell? Hell, I would offer 25K tomorrow but I know it won't touch it. :-\
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Hello from Germany , a beautiful bike. We see these machines what is right and wrong when we restore our machines. Thank you $ 32 ;)
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I am still an engine with the 1-200 number for my frame number 69 Thank you
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I think the bike will fetch top dollar, it is beautiful, does the rear rim look to be rounded or not?
pete
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A picture is worth a thousand words . Would be great if all the images available at this forum, were high definition like these, and if other members could share more images from unmolested bikes. The import taxes and licences are too high in Brazil (about 150% of the motorcycles price), if not, i would like very much to own this bike.
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This bike was just listed on ebay. I guess the craigslist offers were not high enough:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-CB-Rare-1969-Sandcast-Honda-CB-750-Museum-Quality-/111068053917?pt=US_motorcycles&hash=item19dc2c019d (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-CB-Rare-1969-Sandcast-Honda-CB-750-Museum-Quality-/111068053917?pt=US_motorcycles&hash=item19dc2c019d)
Regards,
Steven.
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Wow, 19 bids and 12 bidders already. I'm guessing $40,000+.
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bidding currently at $25K. i'm unsurprised.
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This bike appear as a very loved bike.
Rear the lefty cover there is the vacuum, ready to use ever and connected to the carbs.
I never seen that.
I agree with Steve, some parts are late type, the seat for sure.
I think this bike was cared until few years ago from the owner.
I have not ideas aout the front foot peg, used and abused, by who? and why only the lefty?
In about 4600 miles i do not think that a peg can believe in these conditions.
I think this bike can go up to 35/37k.
I dot think will meet the 45k of the sandcast sold by Vic, some years ago, with 500 miles if i remember well.
Ciao!
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I think the seat is an original Riccardo but I could be wrong. I think this bike is as unmolested as I've seen, cept for my RC30 and CBX ;D
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My earlier comment, about the vin range of bike, i included the seat as an example of later type parts, what i was trying to say - most of the parts on the bike are later type parts, what we could expect to see. This bike does not have the earlier type parts we'd expect to see on vins under around 302, such as smooth oil lines, long choke arm, 19 liter tank, 11 hole seat, etc.
Seat on this bike is 17 hole, later type and i believe original to bike.
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My first sandcast (1081/1362), came with few holes seat.
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Very good. With Ricarrdo's bike, we know 11 hole seat pan was as late as 1081. With the ebay bike, we have a 17 hole. It was important to Honda to send motorcycles from factory with a seat, but i do not believe it was important to Honda how many holes were in seat pan. I believe Honda used parts as were available for assembling machines to be ready to ship from the factory. 11 or 17 holes in a seat pan were not a concern in contrast to updated rear hub cushions or superceding to stronger springs in carb, heavier slides and replacing the thin #28 caps, etc. The number of holes in seat pan was not a safety or a liability issue like sticking carb slides or crank case damage causing excessive chain stretch from earlier rear hub cushions which apparently could not absorb the shock of acceleration as well as later cushions.
Chris pointed out an interesting feature, a short ferrule nut on the tach cable and a a long nut on the speedo cable.
Was different length nuts on cables sent from factory ?
Did Honda care if nuts were 2 different lengths ?
Or did Honda only care that the bike left the factory complete with a speedo cable and a tach cable ?
Or, was the speedo cable replaced by the owner ? (I don't think so, but i have no evidence to support my opinion as fact.)
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I wondered about the seat for 576 right from the start. It's a 17 hole pan that had been hideously recovered. There was a piece of masking tape on the underside with the name of the original owner on it. He is now deceased however his good friend recently told me that he has no reason to believe the pan was replaced, only re-covered.
I am in the same boat with my speedo and tach cables. Long nut on the speedo, short on the tach. ???
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With these differences you (Wayne) and Riccardo are talking about, i beleive it's quite safe to say there was no rhyme nor reason to why a 17 hole is on 576 and a 11 hole is on 1081. Ditto short/long nuts. KP's 248 has a pair of early radiussed exh.flanges and a pair of later un-radiussed flanges. Hard to believe these flanges were changed out after the bike left the factory. Honda used on the assembly line parts that were sent to the line. Short/long nuts, 11/17 holes was not a concern for assembling motorcycles that were hot in demand and short in supply. I've visited w/ Vic on this issue, he believes the same.
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About tacho/speedo nut, if i remeber well, the nuts are different.
I'll check tomorrow, i never observed this bike in deep because i want leave this bike unmolested, only clean and polish.
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now we know. reserve met, highest bid 35,099. now the real bidding can begin.
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now we know. reserve met, highest bid 35,099. now the real bidding can begin.
Yep! Lets get this baby rolling!! ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gblxAoWKsmE# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gblxAoWKsmE#)
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i expect bidding will stay at a standstill until the last few minutes/seconds of the auction.
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Looking at the photobucket, APPEARS heads of some of the screws on clutch cover and transmission over are buggered..... ? Am i mistaken ?
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now we know. reserve met
As already noted on another thread, NOT. Bid back to $34,999 and reserve not met! I think that's crazy. Three bidders retrated. One has 4 retractions in the last 6 months, one has 8.
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Looks like we have a new first time bidder who brought the auction back to 35,099.
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About 24 hours to run. I'm thinking that this will probably not go much higher than the current price but anything could happen I suppose.
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I'd tend to agree with you, KP. But, as you say, anything can happen....
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Many screws of the bike are touched or damaged.
About all the screws of the engine covers: sprocket cover, alternator cover, clutch and clutch cover, carbs duct belt and rear the flange.
Probably was used a not correct screw drive or the job was did by a not professional guy (the previous owner?).
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I noticed the same thing, Riccardo. Why would all the screw heads be buggered ? Surely there were not mechanical issues requiring the covers be removed ? Was the owner just "screwing" around ?
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I agree, very interesting about the screw heads. I guess this is a question I already asked but could it be that the covers were removed to be polished? Not lately necessarily but maybe within the last 35 years? Not trying to be argumentative but it does make me wonder. And this might be stirring the pot too much but if it was disassembled for mechanical issues could it be that the mileage is incorrect too? Long nut on the speedo cable could indicate it was changed out, maybe not working for a while. Still a really nice find either way.
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I guess we will never know Mark. I can't remember what recall was done that they would do the 3 punch marks by the VIN?? Could it be a dealer was doing the work and didn't have the proper driver head thus messing them up? As for the cover polishing, the valve cover is high polished as well. Would he have gone to the trouble to remove the engine to get it off for polishing? And speedo cable, I'll go back to 576 having both a long and short nut. 2nd owner did not replace it. Close friend of original owner does not remember him having a problem with the speedo. ??? ???
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Honestly I don't have suspicions about the goodness of the motorcycle. I want to emphasize this.
But I have simply some perplexities which are not represented by buggered screws but by speedo and tacho that look practically new and many many photos taken at the 8 bolts, why?
But........why a bike so well preserved, perhaps with some parts NOS, has worn footpegs as if he was rided for 100000 miles? This is a non sense......or i am a stupid man.
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There certainly seems to be enough evidence that they could have come from the factory with short and long nuts. For what it's worth, #97 had both short. I think there's a thread that discusses the 3 punch marks. Maybe the drive sprocket, chain and rear cush rubbers. Or carbs and cables. I don't remember either.
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I'm looking at pic 42 very closely. Look at the threads and nut for the speedo vs the tach. The speedo threads look clean or new compared to the tach. Also, the tach housing appears more "grainy". Is it just the photo???
Riccardo, I'm wondering if the owner ground the foot peg rubber down so he could wear his favorite riding boots and shift comfortably? Just a thought. if someone was trying to hide something there why not put a good used rubber on?
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Wayne, yes the grain is different.
Maibe the out of focus camera.
But in the years i've seen and restored many gauges and the oldcases was with soft grain, for the age or maybe for the sun.
Please look the photo on the tank (with cap closed), emblem zone, and increase the zoom on the left stripe, is possible to see the gold warnish that go on the black, tipical when you pull out the stripe mask.
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All sorts of good questions and debate..... Likely, we'll never know.
i can see where short and long nut cables could be factory original.
The screws are buggered...... our theories as to why they are buggered are all legitimate ones.
the seller never knew of this bike until barely a week before he posted auction on ebay, only about 3 days before he posted on craigslist.
When the seller initally emailed me, he had seen the bike for the first time, but did not have the bike in his posession.
A day later, he went over to the widow's again, picked up te bike and took pictures at his house.
Seller did not send me the pictures until a day after he had the bike at his house.
I can only assume the questions we are asking from what we are seeing were things that happened to the bike while in the possession of the original owner, who, as i understand it, according to what the widow told the seller, the orig.owner covered the motorcycle in 1976 and remained covered until the widow let the seller uncover the bike less than 2 weeks ago. the orig.owner never put the 76-77-78 license tags on the license plate.
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I guess at this point all we can say for sure is that the bike seems to be a fine sancast. I hope a member acquires this machine and shares findings and more images for the site. I already know I will be referring to a lot of these images when doing final assembly of 576. As for the auction we will know in a little over an hour how the community at large feels about this fine machine. :) over 35k is a pretty good indicator! :)
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going, going, gone at $35,099 !
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So was it a member here? It would be great to get more details about this one.
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Speed and tacho...short nuts.
In Late Production Type, SOOC site, there is a clear add photo of a beautyfull red.
Lefty horn, thin lip alternator cover, five mm carbs cables adjuster and short nut for the speedo cable.
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Round 2 for #1095; $30K, no reserve. $40K b.i.n.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Rare-1969-Sandcast-Honda-CB-750-Museum-Quality-/171042540392?pt=US_motorcycles&hash=item27d2ee0b68#ht_4354wt_882 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Rare-1969-Sandcast-Honda-CB-750-Museum-Quality-/171042540392?pt=US_motorcycles&hash=item27d2ee0b68#ht_4354wt_882)
The other auction, #2814 is at $15.3K and reserve not met..... :o
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-HONDA-CB-750-SANDCAST-/290915927919?pt=US_motorcycles&hash=item43bbf0c76f#ht_500wt_1182 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-HONDA-CB-750-SANDCAST-/290915927919?pt=US_motorcycles&hash=item43bbf0c76f#ht_500wt_1182)
Don't recall the last time there was this much sandcast auction action !
btw, 2157 came w/ 2 short nuts on speedo/tach cables....
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On the flip side, arguing this lovely original 'appearing' 1095 should not sell for $30K; it's a 44 year old used bike, with 4800 miles. Some patina, minor dents, buggered screws, seemingly over-polished eng.covers, etc. From the standpoint of the potential buyer, who can spend the money for what he wants, for $30-$40K, this bike may not be it, since it is not a truly low vin WITH truly low miles.
I imagine what sold Vic's red 6xxx, for $41K was......... 441 miles
Arguably, 1095 may be worth less than $30K... ?
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Steve,
Those were pretty much my thoughts exactly. $30K is definitely on the high side for that serial IMO. Especially considering what I paid for 244 on eBay that was a very original bike excepting the exhaust. There are several indicators that make me a little suspicious of how unmolested it really is. Most of the parts do look original but the owner has passed (RIP) and is not available to explain a few things. Hard for me to imagine wearing that left foot peg like that in 4800 miles but I guess one could. It appears the clutch cover screws have been abused more than once. Were we hammering the clutch? The appearance of most of the cover screws makes me suspicious that the cases may have been repaired as opposed to just being removed to polish the covers. The carb insulator clamp screws have been buggered also - carb side and engine side. They are original cases but the Auctioneer did not provide a pic of the front sprocket area. The valve cover screws do not appear to have been removed but one can work on cases without pulling the top end. Not enough pics of the engine mount and case bolts to be conclusive but the 6mm bolt in the engine VIN pad pic 10 appears to me to have a rounded corner in the removal direction. Also, look at the lower engine mount nut in pic 29. Does it have socket marks on it? Not trying to throw cold water on it but rather trying to justify spending $30K plus not that I need another SC. But... need and want are two different things. Still, a very nice specimen.
Keith
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I didn't realize so many screw heads were buggered throughout, i did notice at least some of the valve cover screws appeared not to be, but i did not look that closely for any buggering on all of the screws.
The buggered heads you describe, Keith, certainly could suggest engine removal decades ago. Perhaps the owner put the bike away in the mid-70's, resulting from an earlier event requiring screw removal...... The bike apparently was still rideable, because he kept getting license plate tags for a couple years later...... Perhaps his widow would know. The screw heads do arouse suspicion, in turn, putting a damper on vigorous bidding.
Of the Honda rubber foot pegs i've seen, i seem to recall seeing some rubbers more degraded than others, some fairly decent bikes having degraded rubbers and some fairly rough bikes having pretty decent rubbers. Seems some rubbers were more plastic like and some were more rubber like. Makes me wonder the possibility of a particular batch of rubbers might have had a percentage of difference in the mixture which was run through the mold, or the heat in the molding process was slightly off..... Pure conjecture..........
i still believe the bike is largely original/correct and as you say, Keith, a nice specimen.
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I have a view that the cover was removed to free up the clutch maybe The alternator cover is a mystery, Maybe to restore the clear coat maybe, maybe, maybe I;ve not seen too many 40 year old bikes with good clear coat My CBX was kept in a controlled environment but the clear coat has still degraded
As Mr Swan said, pure conjecture but the bike is in superb condition nevertheless
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Listing removed from eBay just a few minutes ago. Hope someone here bought it so we can possibly get our questions answered.
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imho, that's what clear coat is good for.... to degrade.
the buggered screws were bothering me so much, i wrote the seller and asked him his thoughts. he felt the same we do, caused by dealer or owner.
In 1969, the service area the owner lived in was somewhat remote. The seller told me he has several pages of service records written in the owner's hand, both on the CB750 and the SuperHawk he traded in, so it's likely the owner did his own servicing and may have had no impact driver. Or the local dealer didn't have the impact driver and buggered the screws. The seller suspicions the owner may have been a tinkerer, he was in sound design, so likely he installed the synchronizer on the bike and may have removed covers to see what what was underneath.
Mid-late 60's, we had an International implement dealer who sold Yamaha's, another Bridgestone's, in our hometown of 1200 people. both implement dealers would sell them, neither would work on them, so we were on our own. we had a local fellow, who did tune ups and repairs out of his garage. our YDS3 had a tooth knocked out of 2nd gear, i remember Dad dropped the shifter pan to diagnose the clicking sound he was hearing.
I'm just saying, the sophisticated designs honda used were not what many rural or semi-rural dealers were used to seeing, much less working on, compared to other brands of the day. service availability or quality in these rural/semi-rural areas may not have been up to par either, compared to larger cities. it's possible some event happened to the bike requiring engine removal, but what the seller knows, based on hand written records of the owner, i would tend to doubt it.
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Oh !! while i was typing above post, Keith noted auction's gone ! Oh !!
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seller just emailed me. sold to cash in hand usa buyer $33k. i asked the seller to invite the new owner to participate on our DB.
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Who ever bought the bike has some minor adjustments and detailing to do, in order to get the bike back to the original correct looking condition. Does anyone know the new owner and are they a member (to be)? Marty K.
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what i know is the bike sold to a usa buyer.