Honda CB750 Sandcast
The Restoration Shop => Frame and Chassis Related Elements => Topic started by: patriotcommercial on September 09, 2014, 10:20:25 am
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My Bike does not have a data plate on the Headtube, it has the vin stamped into metal on the left side and a decal on the right side. My frame vin is in 6200 range. This weekend there were two Sandcasts at the VJMC West Coast Rally one was unrestored original and the other was a Vic World bike. Neither had a data plate. There is a Sandcast for sale on eBay and it has a data plate on the Headtube. What is the correct situation.
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i guess i don't know what a data plate is... aka "vin tag?" probably the difference between "potayto" and "pototo." and to me, for clarification's sake, there's a difference between a decal and a sticker. (i've never seen a decal on a CB750 steering head.)
Evidence gathered so far indicates with exception to September 1969 units, all sandcasts had a DOT aluminum adhesive sticker (not a decal and with no vin on it nor held on by any rivets) on the right steering head and the frame vin stamped on the left steering head.
As far as we know, Sept.69 units was the first month the aluminum adhesive sticker was not used, replaced (at some point in time and in production run) in favor of a riveted on aluminum plate which still read the DOT verbage and also the vin with month/year of manufacture.
A few years back, i asked membership to look at their vin plates and see if we could find any riveted on vin tags before Sept.69. so far, there are no known riveted on vin tags before Sept.69.
one would think one would expect to see a riveted on tag on a 62xx vin. in the VIN Directory of this website, 5931 is listed as having a 9.69 dated vin tag, hence, riveted on. This 5931 notation was likely in response to my request for owners to look at their vin tags. fwiw, i got few replies.
So Mr.Patriotcommercial, without more info, anyone's guess is as good as mine. although we first see riveted on vin tags begin Sept.69, it's probably unsafe to say ALL vin tags were riveted on beginning Sept.69. in other words, have not yet found an August 69 riveted on sticker.
given we have documented 5931 having a riveted on 9/69 vin plate, it's hard to imagine your 62xx vin would not have had a riveted on vin plate with vin numbers. ON THE OTHER HAND.... we have found inconsistencies in parts we find or don't find within and outside any given vin ranges.
Maybe provide a picture of your right hand steering head ? if you in fact have an original adhesive sticker, then it's hard to imagine someone removed a riveted on tag and put on an aluminum adhesive sticker... ! if we had a picture to look at, we could then concur/confirm with you the sticker is original. or, if is in fact a decal, not an adhesive sticker.
if the sticker on your frame head does not look original, i'd be curious to know if there are holes in the steering head for the tiny rivets to fit in to. if the sticker is original, i would not disturb it.
would be kind of cool if your 62xx vin with a sticker followed 5931 riveted. in the VIN Directory, there is also a 6563 vin with a riveted on plate.
quite a post i made... this goofy little stuff like this interests me alot !
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I can add some more to this discussion in that Ozzie and I suspect other countries sandcast bikes had no aluminum or riveted plates/decals attached. My understanding is these items were unique to US and Canada delivered Sandcasts.
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Good point, Mr.McGee. i meant to put a disclaimer on my post, my comments were limited to USA models.
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Could be Mr Patriot that your bike was not a US delivered bike. Just a thought but as Mr Swan said, check to see if there are any holes in the headstock tube opposite the frame number site of the tube. Has the bike been repainted?
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My name is Jack. I will take a picture and send it. One of the Sandcast I Inspected this last weekend at the VJMC West Coast Rally had a higher Vin than mine and had the non riveted plate as mine does ??
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My name is Jack. I will take a picture and send it. One of the Sandcast I Inspected this last weekend at the VJMC West Coast Rally had a higher Vin than mine and had the non riveted plate as mine does ??
Jack, interesting stuff ! Looking forward to hearing more ! As i said in my previous post, as per the VIN Directory, 5931 had a dated riveted on plate. Yours appears to have a sticker... original ? And, 6563 has a dated riveted on plate. Both 5931 and 6563 have 9.69 dates.
Do you recall the vin at VJMC meet that was higher than yours with a sticker ?
If there are no holes or signs of rivets in your steering head and your vin is Honda font, one would think it must be how it left the factory.
Seems a bit uncharacteristic Honda would start riveting vin plates to frames, then put stickers on higher vin frames. But, as we've learned, Honda did do some interesting things that were not always consistent with conventional thought.
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Didn't get a picture tonight but looked closely at it. The right side of the head tube had an aluminum decal, looked original, worn from a cable rubbing, no visible holes. The restorer look at it and felt it was original.
The left side of the head set had the vin and it was rusty. The frame does not appear to be repainted. The top of the engine case on the rear forward of where the long bolt passes threw has what appears to be a casting date two separate numbers, one is 8 and the separate one is an 18. The inside of the oil pan had a an 8 and a 16 in the round area, sump.
If these are dates then it would seem to be an August Date ???
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Jack, good stuff ! sounds like with a 5xxx vin in directory w/ riveted on tag and your 6xxx having an original aluminum sticker, by all appearances, Honda did briefly go back to stickers after riveting on tags.
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I will have to buy one of those:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Honda-CB-750-F-CB750-CB750F-Four-K0-K1-K2-K3-K4-K5-Data-Plate-69-70-71-72-73-74-/282234431174?hash=item41b67ba6c6:g:~6gAAOSwuAVW1Hdb (http://www.ebay.de/itm/Honda-CB-750-F-CB750-CB750F-Four-K0-K1-K2-K3-K4-K5-Data-Plate-69-70-71-72-73-74-/282234431174?hash=item41b67ba6c6:g:~6gAAOSwuAVW1Hdb)
Which one is correct for sandcast?
Does anybody have a sandcast in the 1900 - 2100 range, what production date would be correct for # 1983?
Engine, oil tank, brear brake show production date 05/69
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if my memory serves me correctly, vin 1983 should have come from factory with an adhesive tag with no manufacture date. manufacture dates on steering head tags were not seen until around the August, these tags were riveted on. what i wrote applies to usa version vins. i don't know anything about European tags.
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Thank you, Steve.
Bike came from US.
So it seems the production data sticker - "problem" is solved.
But what does that adhesive sticker you mentioned looks like?
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does this help ? http://cb750sandcastonly.com/smf_forum/index.php/topic,154.0.html (http://cb750sandcastonly.com/smf_forum/index.php/topic,154.0.html)
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Yes. Thanks.
Now I will have to find the silver headtube sticker.
Edit: found
http://www.ebay.de/itm/182280045465 (http://www.ebay.de/itm/182280045465)
Does anybody has a pic where exactly on headtube it has to be placed?
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the silver is wrong color. the tags are aluminum. the aluminum tag appearing more correct is seen in post #10 of the above link to thread i posted earlier. i just searched around the internet for the correct appearing tag, do't seem to find any. you might consider pm'ing Mark B and see what he uses on his restorations. the tag goes on right side of steering head, opposite the stamped numbers on let side. the tag faces outward so the wording is right side up so it can be read when it is on the bike.
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Thanks for info.
Seller says: "NOT PLASTIC STICKERS BUT ALUMINUM!"
Already orderred one. Letīs see what comes.
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My 1014100 is an 11/69 diecast. The tag was accidentally sandblasted off by a powdercoater. Ugh. Anyway I bought a tag off ebay and it came as several stickers. Dang, I didn't read the fine print. I also own an early 72K with no numbers OR tag. It was apparently wrecked and received a factory replacement frame that wasn't ever stamped. It has a 71 front end, 72 gauges and light console, 71 engine, 72 helmet hooks. I remember the bike and it's owners since the early 70's, I'm pretty sure it's legit. A lot of things happened since 1969. lol.
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the silver is wrong color. the tags are aluminum. the aluminum tag appearing more correct is seen in post #10 of the above link to thread i posted earlier. i just searched around the internet for the correct appearing tag, do't seem to find any. you might consider pm'ing Mark B and see what he uses on his restorations. the tag goes on right side of steering head, opposite the stamped numbers on let side. the tag faces outward so the wording is right side up so it can be read when it is on the bike.
Here it is.
"Wording right side up" is this way?
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correct ! the aluminum fisnish of the tag looks good in your picture !