Honda CB750 Sandcast
General Category => Links to Auctions and Classifieds => Topic started by: vnz00 on January 30, 2014, 07:49:43 pm
-
Its in nice shape - truly the holy grail.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-HONDA-SANDCAST-CB750-CB-750-VERY-RARE-PROTOTYPE-/331119391316?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d1840f254 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-HONDA-SANDCAST-CB750-CB-750-VERY-RARE-PROTOTYPE-/331119391316?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d1840f254)
-
Wow, so I guess this is Sandcast number -4!! Now that is a low number machine! ;D
-
Wow! Just WOW!
Any guess on reserve after the $75K comment?
Guessing it will go for OVER $100K
-
What happened? It's gone! ???
Did anybody get a copy of the listing and/or the pictures?
Bummer, I had already called my financial advisor and told him to get ready for a major investment. ??? >:( ??? >:(
-
I noticed the same thing - been checking on it here and there through the day.
Its strange - the listing is completely gone. Normally if an auction is pulled it will still be available to view and just say its no longer available.
I wonder if it sold.
-
Damn! I was going to copy down pictures, went back and it was gone!
-
I managed to get all of the pictures and the description. Happy to share them!
-
Sending PM with personal email. Would love to have a copy for sure.
I have an archive of most Sandcasts that have been on eBay for the last several years. Was in the process of grabbing this one when I was interupted by my wife. Came back - GONE!
-
Sam,
They are awesome! Thank God somebody was on the ball and preserved some of this unique bike. :D ;D
Thank you very much,
Keith
-
For anyone who would like these pics (74 of them) and the description, please PM me with your email address and I'll be happy to send them to you.
With Vic's permission, I would be happy to host the images so everyone can see them.
-
Do you know why this auction had ended earlier ? If even VIC ends his auctions earlier, so who can we believe in ?
-
Hi Ujeni,
thanks for the pictures. This prototype is the same as was talked about (and pictured) on SOHC4 forum in 2007. If I remember it well, some guy had bought it from Honda dealer (his friend) who call him, that somebody came to them and asked them if they want to buy his bike. Maybe he didn´t know what bike he really had. If the previous owner saw this Ebay listing with its price he should gone mad..... Sometimes crazy things happen.
-
Kevin Dodge was the owner and the pictures of the bike were posted on this site. Kevin asked that they be removed some years back which they were. I do know Kevin had the bike for sale as I enquired about it at the time. I expect we will se the bike listed again on eBay.
-
CB750-2113/CB750E-2113
Distinguishing Characteristics (partial list, as per Kevin Dodge, April 4, 2006)
1. Chassis parts lighter gauge metal
2. Frame tubing smaller diameter, entire frame different from Production
3 Fenders, front/rear, hand formed markings
4. Upper triple clamp, no gusting on underside
5. Front hub, inside, no circumferential fining
6. Shocks, rear upper/lower hand machined
7. Pins, seat, hand turned
8. Caliper is sand cast, hand machined, casting numbers TML338
9. Front & rear rims hand worked
10. Front rim, center spoke rib, 2/3rds width of Production rib
11. “DID” logo different from Production logo
12. Transmission/alternator covers different
13. Rear brake backing plate sand cast, hand machined, sides hand polished
14. Gauges at different angle
15. Oil line, stamped printing, yellow ink, “67/YRC/LP-size-8/4/67
16. Chain adjusters different shape, screws hand machined
17. LH side cover, black ink, stamped printing “700616.2”
18. Back side of headlight lens chrome
19. Master cylinder sand cast, hand machined, one 6mm clamp bolt instead of two
20. Ignition switch number - T4645
21. 5,254 miles on odometer, 108 miles on tripmeter
22. Rear brake, lever, backing plate longer & narrower
23. Heat shields, muffler, 2-piece
24. Blinkers, rear, mount directly to fender
25. Headlight, “H20-4M”
26. Latch, seat, square locking pin, plastic, clear
27. Fender, rear, longer & mounts different to frame
28. Sub-fender, short, black, plastic
29. Carburetor, manifold side, hand machined brass tubes pressed in carb bodies
30. Rack holding individual carbs hand machined
31. Air box, front side, rubber intake snorkels
32. Carburetor, vent cross-over pipes, brass, hand machined
33. Petcock, gas, outlets exit rear of body
34. Tank, gas, tunnel square, one small wrinkle
35. Switch gear, RH/LH, opposite sides from Production
36. Starter/Dipper switch, no kill knob, unfinished aluminum
37. Tank, gas, pin stripes, radius front corners, not 90 degrees
38. Cap, oil tank, aluminum, hand machined
39. Choke lever, stamped flat stock
40. Tail light, bracket, hand pressed markings
41. Pan, seat, hole number/sizes, smaller & larger, different layout configuration
42. No clear plastic coat on aluminum engine/chassis parts
43. Tank, oil, hand formed markings
44. Gas cap, latch, thumb release, twice size of Production
45. VIN, Brighton bike, CB750-2110
46. Cable, earth, hand made
47. All engine castings different
49. Neutral indicator light smaller diameter
50. Brake line, upper, steel pipe
51. Cap, master cylinder, hand machined, top recessed, not flat
52. Release handle, seat latch, wider than Production
53. Carburetor, top caps, sand cast
54. Throttle cable, cable adjusters, top cap,
55. Cover, starter cover, 6mm studs screwed into crankcase
56. Frame, mounting, front brake disc, hand machined
57. Sliders, aluminum, fork, hand machined
58. Bracket, mounting, horn, two 90’ bends, not flat
59. Mufflers, end view, square “D” shape
60. Plug, plastic, key, red
61. Lift handle, has 90’ at rear frame mount
62. Shocks, rear, lower bodies longer
63. Cable, speedometer, ring nut larger diameter
64. Brackets, engine mount, different size & shape
65. Nuts, fork, oil filler, hand machined, flat head, no radius
66. “8” bolts on kick start lever, lower shock clevis’s
67. Cylinder head & cylinder rough sandcast
68. Cam cover more radiused, deeper set valve clearance inspection caps
69. Smooth oil filter cover, finished in clear
70. Center stand similar to CB450 type, no “C” hook for spring
71. Side stand spring has round ends
72. Grey speedometer cable, knurled not fixes to drive, same as top
73. Gas tank badges not solid, can see through between letters
74. Fuel tank has more acute radius, tunnel square, no wrinkles
75. Crank cases bear no resemblance to Production cases
76. Oil pan is huge, w/ drain plug facing back at 45 degrees
77. Airbox made of fiberglass cloth
78. Carburetor bodies sand cast
79. Muffler heat shields 2 piece
80. Mirror type not acorn nut, adjustment like K1
81. Wiring harness has 300 pn, grey connector for ignition switch
82. Oil tank has 14mm drain hex head screw
83. Cable sheaths for carbs smaller gauge than Early Production
84. Carb cable junction splits 1-2, then splits again 2-4
85. Numerals on speedo/tach different shades of green from each instrument & not same shade green as Production instruments, (lighter, mint colour)
86. Fork tube top nuts’ hex heads larger than Production, hex heads overlap fork ears, must remove nuts to remove ears
87. Jewels for Neutral & Oil Pressure lights on opposite sides from Production
88. Jewels for speedo much smaller diameter than Production
89. Clamp holding on speedo/tach one piece, silver colour
-
the fab 4
-
pictures taken by Kevin Dodge, 3 days after he got the bike. April 4, 2006.
-
And....
back on again!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=331120055291&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en#ht_4018wt_57246 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=331120055291&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en#ht_4018wt_57246)
:)
-
That´s really a great piece of history. If if can see Late pre-production model. So what happened with the early pre-production bike, showed in Tokyo and all first brochures ?
-
That´s really a great piece of history. If if can see Late pre-production model. So what happened with the early pre-production bike, showed in Tokyo and all first brochures ?
supposedly the engine and a few other pieces exist.
-
Weather it hits reserve or not in this auction the cat is out of the bag so to speak. I imagine he must be interested in actually selling or he wouldn't have encored the auction fee's. Wouldn't be surprised if this auction comes and goes but the sale happens later. Just hope that it doesn't get swept under the rug in a private collection never to be seen. Would be nice if someone who intends to bring it out once in a while for the rest of us to gawk at picks it up. Perhaps we'll get to see it around 2019 even if the owner remains nameless.
-
There was just retracted bid in amount of 150k. Was the reserve met by this bid ? It is exiting to see this auction and it is very difficult to guess the selling price. 200-250k ?
-
really impossible to name a value on this bike. this auction will set a precedent for valuation of this bike. it will be valuated by what the auction market can bear, whether or not it meets reserve.
until the 2110 gold brighton bike is restored, this bike is a one of a kind factory prototype of the production models that followed. even if 2110 is restored, this blue-green 2113 was and is "the shot heard round the world."
i've always believed, if the timing is 'right' for the 'right' party and this party is aware of this bike at the time it's available for sale, it'd sell for $250k at least.
however unlikely, in the future, i hope the bike does not go into deep hiding and can be seen for the appreciation of sandcast lovers.
-
however unlikely, in the future, i hope the bike does not go into deep hiding and can be seen for the appreciation of sandcast lovers.
The past month of january I had a telephone conversation about two and a half hours with Vic, has not been easy because my english is not so good.
An extraordinary person.
I don't know the personal reasons that push Vic selling the bike, I have no interest in this.
Honestly I think Vic is and remains one of the few people in the (sandcast) world who can be the owner of this bike, or I hope it ends in Honda Museum in Japan, so can be for everyone.
riccardo
-
Extraordinary bike too! I would think that the sale of this one would bring the prices of all sandcasts up. Good for the ones that are owned but not so good for someone whose looking for them or even just parts. Any opinions on that?
Maybe I missed this along the way but why is the VIN 2113?
-
Reserve is gone. This bike can help sandy to increase the selling price. But on the other side Yamia will decrease the price of non original Sandy. Nowadays there can exists for example 2000 units in good/restored condition. With Yamia restored bikes there can be back 7400 units. Last year we have seen for sale as many Sandys as never before. And many Sandys in good condition were sold for same price as worse condition 2-3 years back. If somebody will make repro for himselve, OK. But if somebody is doing repro parts and selling them, it can´t be lover of these bikes. I know some cases, where some bikes exits in bigger numbers, than really were produced ! And only due the repro parts. This is the biggest danger for Sandys and all bikes general.
-
I am agree with CBman in some way, but there will not become any new frames and engine cases with correct numbers.
We do not know how many there are left, but I am sure that many are melted long time ago. I think prices will differ more than now from the very very early examples to the latest exampels. The same for originality to repro.
-
Hello, interesting to see at what price this bike is.
I you restore my Biks # 69/53 # 412/376 # 2577/2578 share only with original what a lot of time and money Costs.
# 69 Dirk
-
speculation on my part......
it's likely the "2" is significant in "2"110, "2"111, so forth and so on.
i believe probable the early pp bike with the different s.cover badges was could have been numbered beginning "1" or "1"xxx or what ever.
i believe possible the "2" indicates the late pp bikes to be 2nd in the pp series.
it would seem to make sense the early pp bike had a "1" as the first digit of the vin.
why "10," "11", "12" and "13?" why not 2001, 2002, etc... ? good question. maybe because there 9 other late pp units before 2110.... ? and these units were used as test mules before the following 4 machines were presented at the Las Vegas dealer convention......... ? these first 9 late pp bikes never left Japan, were used only for testing purposes and were seen only by the folks at Honda....... ?
as i said, speculation on my part.
-
Sounds plausible to me.
-
Steve,
Yes it's been awhile since you have heard from me.... and yes I do jump on the site now and then....still have my orange K4.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't some of the pre-production test bikes have a drum front brake. I think I remember seeing pictures of those in the Bob's talk at 09 VMD. I would believe that those would predate this bike. Currently this one is at $121K with a whole week to go on the auction.
ray
-
Hi Ray ! Great to hear from you ! Yes, there was a drum braked machine. we don't have much info about it. as far as i know, this machine did precede the early and late pp bikes. beyond that, i don't know enough about it to have much of an informed opinion about it........... :(
on another note.... can you still produce on dvd the recording you made of Bob H's and Bob J's presentation ? Chris Rushton recently asked me about the possibility of obtaining a few copies.....
-
I can probably make some copies of the master dvd's that I have. I don't have the program that I created the dvd's with anymore...moved on to a new computer and that was some old legacy software that I had.
I 'll see what I can do for you.
ray
-
At 09 VMD did Vic World give a talk on restoration and if so is there a video of it available? I am keen to find out how he treats alloy parts as detailed as attached.
Maybe its a trade secret I don't know and he may not wish to share it with us.
One guy who should be highly commended is Marcel (Lecram) he shares all of his research, tips etc with us freely on gauge restoration.
Cheers...........AshD
-
if there is a recording of Vic's presentation, i am not aware of one.
-
I think there is a Youtube video, but then maybe I imagined it.
-
I think is one of the pages of the Cycle magazine.
-
I think is one of the pages of the Cycle magazine.
I think you are right Riccardo I seem to recall something and it is probably a written article rather than a video. Any one else seen anything
-
The picture I posted was from a magazine article I think linked from his website. However, I thought he gave a talk on restoration in 2009 and just wondered if anyone made a video of it.
I could be wrong !!!! My thoughts are that the acid etch he useds is some kind of chromate treatment because a friend worked at British Aerospace near me and they used chromate treatment to etch aircraft alloy to allow clearcoat the adhere. Also keen to know how to replicate the aluminium surface finish that Honda did.
Hope I am not hijacking this thread !!
Cheers ... AshD
-
back on track...... CB750-2113 IS the holy grail of things sandcast CB750. whatever the final bid brings, the price will be a bargain. it's value will only increase over time. as far as historical value goes, it is priceless and belongs in the Collection Hall of Honda Japan.
-
Steve, a little off topic but this pic id from an August 1968 Cycle World. Cliff.
(http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr41/chalayko/pg-2_zps74ad25b3.jpg)
-
as i understand it, this bike was an early test mule as evidenced by the drum ft.brake and chrome panel tank. Honda had not yet produced chassis ancillaries for any 750 in those early days. Bob Jameson said there were quite a number of test mules, at least 20 or even more. i remember this article when it came out; made for VERY EXCITING reading. likely, the pic was taken 2 or 3 months earlier; it took news a while to come from Japan to America. Fueled high hopes a reliable and affordable 4 cyl.would come on the market. if i recall correctly, this article was under the "News from Japan" section, typically towards the back of the magazine. i think the article stated the machine turned 10k rpm and made 80hp. and, if i recall correctly, the Munch Mammut had made it's debut some months earlier and the price then was around $4k, available by special order. Floyd Clymer invested in the Munch and was romored to bring the Mammut to America and market it as an Indian 4. not to happen, Floyd died.
-
so, in his ad, here's Vic's explanation about pre-prod serial numbering............
"Hi, Thanks. This Frame is CB750-2113, with engine CB750E-2113 It was common for Honda GP race bikes and prototypes of the 1960s to have the same numbers. The very first prototype CB750 (a few months earlier than my bike) which was shown at the 1968 Tokyo Motor Show had Frame/Engine numbers CB750-1101. The first "1" means "first series" produced of the proto, the next numbers (10) means nothing, and the last number (1) means first bike made of that first series. That bike never left Japan, and nobody has seen it since. The second series (the 4 bikes that came over together for the Las Vegas Show) were numbered........ 2110 (Gold Bike)....... 2111 -?color (Red or Dk. Green)........ 2112 -? color (Dk. Green or Red)..... 2113 (my Blue/Green Bike).......... The first number (2) means "second series" of protos, the next 2 numbers means nothing, and the last number (0,1,2,or 3) is the sequential number assigned to that color bike. (Actually, the 3rd number in each of the 2 series is a check number, but you get what I mean). Thanks again, Vic"
wonder how he knows some of the numbers "means nothing?"
-
I always thought that one of the Tokyo show style bikes (first series pre-production / prototype) DID go to the US. Featured in Cycle Guide, March'69, with a picture of it being ridden with what look like American cars in the background. If the Tokyo show bike was 1101 (first series, first bike), maybe the one that seems to have gone to the US was 1102? Now what became of that one????
Of course maybe there were more of each series (was the drum brake one of the first series, or something else?).
lots of maybe's.
Somebody knows, or knew.
Chris R.
-
Just for fun:
(http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr41/chalayko/Cover_zps7b82e3d4.jpg)
(http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr41/chalayko/pg-2_zps8df970b5.jpg)
(http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr41/chalayko/pg-3_zpsc16bd358.jpg)
(http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr41/chalayko/pg-4_zpsc66b53d3.jpg)
(http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr41/chalayko/pg-5_zps77c48c1a.jpg)
-
Just for fun:
(http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr41/chalayko/Cover_zps7b82e3d4.jpg)
(http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr41/chalayko/pg-2_zps8df970b5.jpg)
(http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr41/chalayko/pg-3_zpsc16bd358.jpg)
(http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr41/chalayko/pg-4_zpsc66b53d3.jpg)
(http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr41/chalayko/pg-5_zps77c48c1a.jpg)
great pics !
yes, that bike was featured and road tested in a number of US magazines before the later units came out. right now i'm looking at a 2 page fold out magazine ad, featuring that very motorcycle, "Sooner or later, you knew Honda would do it." the rider is wearing a white 3/4 helmet with an light amber tinted face shield and a red wind breaker. And, that bike bike was pictured being road tested by Bob Greene in the May 69 Hot Rod magazine.
the rider on the cover of Cycle Guide is Bob Young. in other articles, he's wearing the same jacket and his name is embroidered on the right chest area of the jacket. he's still alive and lives somewhere in So.Cal. i'm sure Vic knows him. He and Bob Jameson were in Japan together prior to the 1st prod.bike being finished. Bob Y stayed in Japan for about another month after Bob J returned to the US.
-
go here to see the 6 identified variations of Honda 750 4's......... http://cb750sandcastonly.com/machinetypes01.htm (http://cb750sandcastonly.com/machinetypes01.htm)
-
Oh My God....who'd thought that it would bring that kind of money though....$148.1K ow that hurts my wallet.
-
Anyone know where it has gone? Was hopeful to see it in the US for a 2019 showing but now wondering if it will be seen again in my life time.
Marcello
-
To date, sadly, it has disappeared.
-
A single person could answer on that...
If she reads my words??