Honda CB750 Sandcast
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: sandydogg on August 29, 2012, 05:07:12 pm
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hi, i recently found #1767/e1774 in the remote sandhills of nebraska, far from home. there is a heart breaking story with the bike... the guy i got it from got it from a buddy who was building a chopper out of it!! :'( i have a few of the original parts not shown in the photo's but not much. as this guy was hauling it from his buddy's house, the guy said "hey take the seat and tank too" but he didn't want it... so as the guy drove away the p/o TOSSED the tank into the back of his truck... yeah it was a wrinkle tank and ducktail seat, oh and the tail light with two hole bracket... well before i saw the cl ad someone else saw it and asked about the tank and seat and tail light, the guy figured it was junk and sold it for (what he thought was outrageous) $200. when i asked about all the other stuff he said the p/o has dozed the building down and all the scrap and even the bulding was long gone to the dump. >:( when the p/o had it, before the chop, it was VERY original and in great shape :'( :'( :'( she's not much to look at these days! it does have 8900 original miles on it and ran fine before getting the torch.
SO... i am new to the world of k0's and welcome any and all comments and/or help on getting this thing back into driveable shape. i doubt if it will ever be a true restoration, there is just too much missing... my goal is to get the motor and frame back to the best possible shape and take it from there. i have 2 k2's and a k3 to use as donor parts (not so much as a restoration but more a driveable mock up).
first order of business: cleaning up the motor. after much thought i have decided to not rebuild the motor as it has 8900 original miles and runs. was thinking of pressure washing it and see how it comes out. will have to be careful to plug up any openings of course.
second order of business: frame repairs. i think a professional frame repair shop can graft part of an old frame back onto this one. it has been cut and welded as you can see in the pics (if i get them to post!). i welcome any advice here!! i think the k2/k3 frames i have won't do. research tells me that the earlier the frame, the cruder the welds. so do you guys think any old k0 frame can be used as a donor frame?? i have the k3 with no title but want to be as correct as possible, even with a butchered frame. i DO have a clean title for the sandy and the neck and front area is pretty much untouched, the numbers are crisp too with no cable rub. swing arm?? k2/k3 part numbers are slightly different. again, do i need a k0 swing arm, or maybe try and grind the welds from the original one?? of course i want to keep it as original as possible, but some shortcuts would be welcome in this project.. i simply do not have an unlimited budget.
as i get the frame repairs done and the frame painted or coated (cons of powder coating?? i know it's not period correct of course) i will be using k2/k3 donor parts to make it a rolling chassis, get it fired up, get it titled in my name, and at least have accomplished a big chunk of the preliminary work. all repairs/restoration work/donor parts will be carefully documented. i suppose having a butchered frame to start with will make this one less than an ideal candidate for a councours type of resto. i am shooting for a decent driveable somewhat correct unit at completion. any thoughts on the project are appreciated.
cheers, john in omaha nebraska
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Great pics and congrats on your find ! I'm originally from Hartington, if you know where that's at ! You have some nice early parts remaining, do study our website and discover what those parts are ! In the process, you'll become knowledgeable about things sandcast. Re: the frame repair, i would suggest finding as early a "K0" frame as possible to use as a donor frame. Cut your steering head off in strategic places and use the rest of the "K0" frame from behind the steering head. Any reputable frame building shop should be able to get the job done and i would think Omaha has specialty motorcycle shops that build frames. Worst case scenario, would be sending the frame out, my past internet research, i know there are frame shops that repairing, rebuilding or fabricating frames is all in a day's work. Assuming the engine's never been run out of oil, the lower end is probably fine. Likely will, at least, need rings, upper end gaskets/o-rings replaced, valves refaced including valve guide seals. You DO have a project, but if you take your time, look for and accumulate parts you need, you'll have a roadworthy early vin sandcast. Really like your round oil fliter cover. Didn't one just sell on ebay for crazy $$$$ ? Nice early oil lines. And, thin lip alt.cover.....
Happens there is an early "K0" frame on ebay. Starting price is about right, the shipping is excessive - http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Honda-CB750-CB-750-K0-CB-750-Sandcast-KO-73-frame-12-69-1015194-1969-/320972226826?hash=item4abb6f810a&item=320972226826&pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Honda-CB750-CB-750-K0-CB-750-Sandcast-KO-73-frame-12-69-1015194-1969-/320972226826?hash=item4abb6f810a&item=320972226826&pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr)
You might call these people in Omaha, describe to them what you have and see if they can be of help - http://www.gypsycustoms.com/ (http://www.gypsycustoms.com/)
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hi steve,
thanks for the quick reply! i haven't checked evil-bay for a couple days, thanks for the link, looks about like what i need. i never thought about just saving the neck, i was thinking of keeping the frame as original as possible but that's a great point. i do have the lefty horn. guess that could be put on that untitled frame too. as far as ebay i might as well go on the record and let everyone know i am a full time seller on there too. sparkingdogg is my user/store name. we are NOT all evil crooks... some of us are honest business people just trying to make a living outside the box. some of us got laid off of 20 year jobs and have a family to feed, and a love of all things motorcycle. for me it' a good fit. just want to throw all that out there now. i am NOT here to advertise myself, i am just an upfront and honest guy. besides i only sell k2+ parts ;) i believe i have been in hartington a few years ago, i think it's near sioux city. as far as time, i have a "10 year plan" haha, no hurry, mostly would just like to fire her up as soon as i reasonably can... something about the old stuff just gets my mouth watering! anyways, the old girl was, according to the guy i got it from, slated to be cut further... he was looking for an amen savior frame to weld the neck on!! i do like the fact that it is pretty low in the frame number, with the lefty horn and all. i am sure i will have a lot of questions, i will do my homework too, any and all comments and advice are very welcome. i am proud to have this in my collection. i have been looking for one for a couple years, when the guy told me the frame number i couldn't believe i found one! and yes i will likely be doing the rings and valves and such as you have advised. thanks again, and thanks for the neat-o website for the owners of these neat machines!
kind regards, john
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Hi John, and welcome!
Ditto what Steve S said - find a replacement frame and this way your welder will know correct geometry etc. I think the rear shock upper mount braces are shorter on the sandcasts, but Im not sure what VIN they changed to the longer ones.
You might also want to grab the rear swingarm and battery box (and any other sundry items you need) from that same bike as well. The swingarm has a gusseted bracket for the early plastic chainguard. Just double check this vendor has the right one (I think this was changed around VIN 20000).
Your front forks and fender arent correct for the model, but there are some correct early ones on ebay at the moment which I have seen recently. Your front wheel and disc appear original though. Id hazard a guess and say your rear hub is the original one too as it has the 45tooth sprocket on it.
That top triple looks like it has been customed or something - dont throw it out though as it should be an early narrow nose one.
Hopefully you got the front brake calliper and master cylinder as part of the deal too.
Looks like you got a nice find - aside from the mods, what you have there looks low mile, and not butchered. You do have a round oil filter cover (which is strange as you have the factory recall carb tops - oil filter recall was earlier). The alternator cover, oil filter and gauges, if sold, would more than cover the cost of what you paid I imagine ;)
Good luck - do you want to restore or build up as a nice original bike?
Steven V.
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thanks steven!
great info, i was planning on a k0 swing arm and battery box, would love to find a whole k0 for donor parts. i know the forks are not original and the fender. thanks for the info on the front wheel and rear hub, i was wondering!! as far as the top triple bridge, it is aftermarket vintage stuff, it matches the bottom one and they have a pretty fair amount of rake, to accomodate the oversized chopper fork tubes. i didn't picture it well, but the "narrow nose" has been cut off the oem fork bridge and bolted to the a/m current one with some home-made brackets so the gauges could be used (btw i am so very happy the gauges are there!!). i do have the caliper and arm, the oil tank, the rear pegs and pins, however the darned master cylinder got tossed by the p/o. too bad. thanks for the info on the carb caps, i was wondering why they were missing the "28". really happy thay smoothie oil filter cover didn't make the recall!! first thing i noticed when i saw the bike listed!! it's no secret, i paid $1400 for it as it sits. the guy had it listed at $1350, told him i would give him $1500 if he held it for two days, he said $1400 cash and agreed to hold it, had to rent a trailer since the stretched front end was too much for my 4x7. so, didn't get the trailer back to u-haul by 7pm, basically $1400 + $40 + about $100 fuel cost. $1540 total paid. i guess the triple clamp/front forks/rear fender/gas tanks/headlight are worth around $1000 which i will sell. that price would include some other stuff i got not pictured, some accell coils new, a vintage chopper seat, new aviation tank caps, a whole box of stuff. so i am in right now at $500 ;D as she sits. i will pull out the electronic ignition and put the original points plate back in. too bad but no key. does have the sweet original recessed "holy grail" ignition switch. have to find a repop key with dust cap. all in time. and for your question, i am not a resto guy, not really. would rather have an original. i am in at around $500 so far so i don't feel too bad about dumping a few bucks into the motor and frame, and slapping some k2/k3 part on her, just to make her start to feel the way she was meant to. every time i look at it (and it is in my very small work shop!) i cringe... she looks HORRIBLE to me, like some franken-bike beast, who has been welded and cut and abused. will be quite happy to at least get some original lines back to her, the correct k0 tank and seat and such will come in time. and maybe i can find a front fender in my life time :P
cheers, john
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John, if you use your 1767 neck and went the "K0" frame route, you could make your cuts on the front down tubes, saving the LH horn mount. The top frame tubes would take a bit of study, since it looks like there was some modification work near the neck on top to mount those fat bob tanks. The pics make it appear you should have enough original top frame tubing behind the neck to graft to a donor frame. Before making any cuts, i would find who can get the frame back together. You may want to bring them the donor frame and 1767 and let them make the cuts. I cannot recall w/o researching, but there would be no significantly appreciable visible differences between an original 1767 frame and any "K0" frame, especially the December frame now on ebay.
Does the center stand have the diagonal reinforcing bar on right side ?
It's a bit difficult to tell, but DOES look like exh.clamps are the early "fat" type ? Back side of top fins on clamps 2 & 3 appear beveled flat... ? Whereas clamps 1 & 4 have a convex radius on back side of top fins ?
The tach cable has short knurl nut. The early oil line fabric looks excellent. You have the "straight cut" brake pedal and rear hub, etc. Your switchgear looks really good, sans horn button. A couple years ago, i bought just the horn button from Honda for my 2157 project. You've got the ign.switch. Got key ? Try Mark troxell, Hondakeys.com Nice gauges. Looks like your cases and lenses are 'saves', just get new dial faces from LeCram. Nice horn. Good carbs. You have early "8" engine mount bolts; not easy to find. Thin lip alt.cover... priceless.
You mentioned other parts came w/ bike ? Please post pics of parts !
John, in spite of the bike being a glorious mess you DO have good pieces for the makings of a nice start for building a rider. With some persistant searching and researching, you can find much of what you'll need for a nice original appearing, if not reasonably correct appearing for the period 1969-70, CB750. There's no rule saying you have to have the wrinkle tank, the double cut fender or the 2 hole tail light, etc, etc. At least right away...... ;) Getting the parts you need to make the bike appear original should not be so costly. Basically, the major visual areas are side covers, airbox, oil tank and a seat. The rest could be pretty much taken from "K0" & K1 and even quite a bit used up to K6.
Be ye not faint of heart !
I'll bet w/ some minor prep work, the engine will run quite well. Remove sump pan, clean debris; oil the upper end. Adjust valves, clean points, set timing. New oil, filter, battery. Press the new starter button..... varooom !
GOOD STUFF !!! ;D
Keep us posted !
PS - where in the Sandhills did you find the bike ? in my backyard... ::)
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hi steve,
beautiful insight, many thanks. of course, i will have the frame builder make ALL cuts otherwise... >:( it's seen enough butchery, it's time it gets some professional help. we have a world class powder coater here in omaha, i personally think breaking the rule of "original" when it comes to powder coating is okay... it sure seems more durable, cheaper, just all around better. but frame repairs first!!
thanks for re-affirming what i thought, no SIGNIFICANT differences in the k0 line's frames. i wanted an expert opinion... thanks!
yes, the center stand has the bar.
yes, now that you mention it, the 1-4 and 2-3 exhaust holders are not symetrical... indeed! i was told that the pipes were cut from the mufflers for the chopper :'( so they have likely not been removed since mid-1969. :o
i was wondering if it was good (or correct, i should say) to have a long cable nut on speedo and short on tach? ???
i was happy to see the switch gear will not really need any real resto work, yay! haven't checked out the wiring yet. i like the oil lines, not bad at all. i will have to study up on brake pedals, not familiar with the differences. thanks for the tip, i will check out that place for the key, which i do need. btw i'm so happy it has a clean title!! a real one! :D
i was planning on having the gauges professionally restored. mint gauges really make the bike pop. will check out lecram, thanks. probably go ahead and have the guts cleaned up and checked over... of course being the "old dogg" i will not likely get the odometer reset.
i had no idea on the "8" motor mounts!! great news! i know she was fairly early in the line and all. i think 100% of the non-chopper stuff on the bike is original. i believe there have never been any other 750 parts added to her. what part is left is straight from japan in one chunk. what is so nice is the low mileage, with 8900 miles probably no major repairs have ever been done to her. never been any need to slap on k1 parts (til now haha)
i will shoot some pics of the other stuff, i spread it out at my warehouse (within reason haha) since my shop is too small (2 car garage). i have two original oil filters in the box, japanese writing and all, bet they are from 1969 too. there's a couple newer ones in brown boxes but there are two in red/white fancy printed boxes. look vintage to me. will get pics.
naw not faint of heart... man i have a collection! part of my collection is some rd350's mostly 1975 orange ones... called the "giant killer" in case you don't know... well rd stands for "race developed" and they were born on the european and asian race tracks, and yes the cb750 was the "giant" haha... on the streets no one could touch the cb750, until you threw in some turns, and a skinny little f*cker on a screaming, knee dragging, smoking, two stroke twin born on the race track... they are super neat bikes too, and i have several, in fact one is parked right next to 1767, hope she doesn't mind, haha... have a couple bikes from the charles redlin collection (his dad is the famous artist) including a mint 1983 gl650i silverwing interstate and a mint 1986 vf500 interceptor v4. have another silverwing interstate, an 82 gl500i with a friendship sidecar and every markland accessory from back in the day, she belongs in a parade... tall screen, bubble trunk, chrome airhorns/floorboards/light bars etc etc etc it's quite a fancy looking little hack, haha... have a TON of dirt bikes 2 stroke 4 stroke vintage and modern. my daily drivers are my "fleet" of vn750 vulcan's of which i have about 6 or 7. all in all i have built up a neat collection. i have a chance at a norton 850 commando "hi-rider", it is rough, but i kind of like the odd stuff. i cut my teeth on a 1968 kawasaki c2tr "road runner". my first "real" dirt bike was a 1974 kawasaki f7. i moved up to a 1973 honda cl350 "scrambler" which was stolen from me, and i miss terribly, it was absolutely mint i tell ya. just sparkled in the sun. so no, not too "faint".
yes i will be careful before i fire her up, for sure. your advice is sound, thanks.
i found her on omaha craigslist, drove to "near" burwell, nebraska. i have never been to the sandhills... holy crap :o what a place!! no interstate... took the back 2 lane to fremont, once about an hour outside fremont the roads turned to total crap, some of the worst hiways i have ever driven. the u-haul trailer was apparently built to be idiot proof, meaning super-dee-duper duty, meaning a suspension that will hold 3000 bags of concrete that some moron will put on it. empty, it pulled like a pig. loaded, it pulled like a big fat pig on square wheels, with a wind sail attached. and i have a heavy half ton 4wd dodge 360 ci pulling machine, long cab, made for pulling BUT the roads were so bad that i was doing 45-50 mph for much of the drive back. it was pretty bad. had to stop a lot and check the straps after a few dozen tooth-rattling trailer-swerving bumps. man, as far as the actual sandhills... i think it was around 45 minutes before i would see a house, a car, or anything but SAND and HILLS. it is kind of pretty in a way, but NO THANKS i was born a city kid and the sandhills are kind of like montana, just miles and miles of NOTHING. it was a long long day making that drive. oh and a big shout out to kc, the guy i got the bike from. what a nice guy! i stayed as long as i could and bs'ed with him, hope i can do more business with him, one of the "salt of the earth" kind of fellows. a true pleasure to meet him. also got a hot tip about a "shed full of old old 750's" haha 8) gotta love finding a sand cast in the sand hills
will be moving to fall mode soon and begin some frame work etc, will do a full write up on progress with a ton of pics and a few vids, it's all in a day's work for me. i am surrounded by motorcycles all day. at night, sometimes, i still dream about them. how kool is that ;D
regards, john
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John, all I can say is wow. I thought I had a project with #97. Steve and Steven have a lot of good advice. You definately have a couple of good bits and the low VIN is a plus. Welcome to the board, you've come to the right place. I'll be watching this with great interest and good luck!!
Mark
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Heck of a find, heck of a project! Welcome aboard John!
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thanks mark and wayne!!
will post pics as i go!!
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missed out on the ebay auction on the k0 frame today, got busy and forgot to THINK about bidding.... $230 shipped for a non-titles frame seems kind of steep. kind of been hoping to find a cheap "barn find" k0 and get the whole thing for around that. they are OUT THERE and it drives me nuts... just gotta find 'em! anyways tore apart a k3 today which will be funding the sand cast project, a pretty good untitled parts bike, a full runner... paid $400 for the k3 and that's exactly why i hate to spend over half that on a k0 bare frame, with semi-crappy pictures, could be hidden damages. old 1767 may have to go into short term storage until i can find a decent lot of low vin k0 parts at a fair price, hoping locally. ran an ad on craigslist "looking for old cb750's" and got about a hundred texts and emails. too many were in the $5k+ range. i am kind of like the american picker guy of the motorcycle world. i pass over the shiny stuff a lot (don't take me wrong, i have some very clean and vlauable vintage bikes in my collection) searching for the old, dusty, gritty, cob-web covered originals that have been in storage for 30 years. and i find 'em too. just seems silly, if i get the "sandy" fever and start snapping up all the k0 stuff at once, when i am sure i will find a decent k0 donor bike in the next year. winter is a good time to beat the bushes for the old dusty ones, it seems. although i keep my ears open all the time!!
get this... a local craigslist ad for a "71 cb750, $100, runs but has oil leak" holy donkeys this is why i watch cl up to 20 times a day! i was first caller, guy tells me he will be home like 4, i get there 3:55 of course, he says "man i must have had 1000 calls today... i think i am selling it too cheap... gonna have to raise the price..." and i am thinking, ok... here we go... guy says "have to have $150 now" man i just laughed and gave him like $200 and told him to keep the change. turned out to be a 72 cb750 k2 in pretty impressive shape, 95% original, nasty poopy brown colour, but ALL THERE, running, and current title. i got the impression he got it from his friend's dad for around that amount, rode it a couple weeks, sprung an oil leak by the stator cover, and parked it for a couple weeks, before listing it, guy had a nice honda shadow to ride anyways. just wanted his money back.
that's what keeps me going, keeps me burning $200 gas going to the middle of nowhere, keeps my mouth watering. they are out there. and i suppose, since i am taking an active and passive method to my search, my odds are increased over someone who never drives to the middle of nowhere on a moment's notice, just to FIND 'em. i know there are more sandy's out there. will sure be keeping both eyes open.
cheers.
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try this frame Item 271048854643
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Good find, KP ! $199.95, great price including shipping for a "K0" frame. K3 frame will have visible differences in gusseting compared to this "K0" frame.
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some pics of the work shop, rd350 "giant killer" next to "dead giant" haha
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hard at work today harvesting this k3!
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the poopy brown k2 titled runner i got for $200 locally, 24k miles
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sadly i have nowhere to display my collection so it looks like this...
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the box of parts i was talking about...
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new cables
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/sparkingdogg/IMG_0476.jpg)
used cables
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/sparkingdogg/IMG_0477.jpg)
original oil tank and cap!
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/sparkingdogg/IMG_0478.jpg)
these filters look old!!
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/sparkingdogg/IMG_0479.jpg)
the points plate, it currently has electronic ignition which i will sell
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/sparkingdogg/IMG_0480.jpg)
more filters and some new accell stuff
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/sparkingdogg/IMG_0481.jpg)
original sandy tool tray
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/sparkingdogg/IMG_0482.jpg)
what's this horn?? no idea...
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/sparkingdogg/IMG_0483.jpg)
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/sparkingdogg/IMG_0484.jpg)
thought the mirror was original 'til i saw the stamp in the pic...
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/sparkingdogg/IMG_0485.jpg)
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/sparkingdogg/IMG_0486.jpg)
front caliper, no master or hose though...
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/sparkingdogg/IMG_0487.jpg)
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/sparkingdogg/IMG_0488.jpg)
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/sparkingdogg/IMG_0489.jpg)
rear pillions and pins
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/sparkingdogg/IMG_0490.jpg)
bucket-o-bolts
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/sparkingdogg/IMG_0491.jpg)
thanks, will check out the frame. wasn't going to use the k3 frame... sometimes i AM a knucklehead but have been studying!!
cheers, john
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thanks kp, for the heads up on the frame. i think i will buy it so i can at least start to get a proper rolling platform under way. probably find a whole k0 the day after i buy it... *sigh*
can someone tell me how correct this wheel would be for 1767?? ebay Item number: 251143423883
i have read on here about "double rolled" or "cold rolled" or something different but i can't remember where i saw it. i have the original hub laced to a 16" wheel. would i be wise to get this rim, have it rechromed (if needed), spokes re (zinced?? or chromed??) and lace it to my hub? am i better off getting a repop rim and spokes? your thoughts and advice are greatly appreciated.
if i get the platform roll-able it would be a huge thing. i spend half the day, in my micro-shop, with my elbow in my butt... the ability to open the frickin' garage door and roll a platform outside on a nice day is quite important. i had a kx250 fall off the stand and do about $300 worth of damage to one of my vn750's. unlike a hobbyist i don't have the luxury of a dedicated space for a project, not really. i don't have much for tools at my warehouse, i never work there.
i was thinking of a k2 i have for the front clip ie triple clamp and fork tubes. are the k0's the same as the 1767 would have? i do remember the forks changed in '71 or '72, if i remember right the early forks had different internals, different clips and stuff. i KNOW the k2's wll fit. but are they even semi-correct? i will research of course but also appreciate the comments. i don't always have the hours it takes to research, heck somedays i don't have time to comb my hair. two babies and a home based business keep me running all the time ;)
cheers, john
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sandydogg:
Welcome it is always good to have new faces in the crowd, enjoy the web site. There is allot of good information here as well as quite a few members who have very good, to excellent knowledge of the early CB750 sand cast and K0 motorcycles. By the way nice snag on finding an early vin-ed sand cast motorcycle. You have a good start with having quite a few correct hard to find parts that are unique to early vin-ed sand cast motorcycles. Most of them having already been pointed out by other members. The rear rim your asking about is not correct for your early vin-ed bike. You need a two hole hub and a rolled lipped rim. You will also need pretty much a complete front end for a start. Lucky for you that most of the items you need are available on the CB750K0 model. Looks like you won yourself a CB750K0 frame. Enjoy the project and have fun. Marty K.
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thanks marty,
i will probably use the k2 front end and both wheels that i already have to make the platform a roller. it will give me time to clean up the front wheel, and find a correct rear rim to lace on my hub. after the welding, my frame/swingarm/center stand/battery box can go to the paint shop whilst i fart around with the motor and carb bank.
thanks for the info!!
regards, john
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Hi John,
Just wondering if I could pls ask a favour.
I just bought a round oil filter cover. There seems to have been varying finishes on them.
Any chance you could take some close ups of the cover you have and post them up?
Seems to be that early ones were satin polished to take off the rough cast finish, then clear coated like the engine covers.
I suspect that this practice tapered off a bit, or varied as it was a manual process. The forum is a little short on info of photos of them. Would be great if you could provide photos to help.
Also, does it look clear coated at all?
Thanks, Steven.
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Also regarding the rear shock upper mount brackets. These are definitely longer on the K0. Just checked after my ride today.
Sandcast gussets are about 5" long, and straight. The rear of the gusset finishes before the frame loop which holds the rear inner and outer fender together.
The K0 gussets are much longer and are radiused. They finish after the frame loop.
Hope this clears this up. I'm pretty sure this frame mod happened at the end of the sandcasts but not 100% sure. I might be able to post pics.
Regards,
Steven
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The change to rear shock upper mounting gussets occurred some way into K0 production, but not sure when. I had a"K0" (1015143) some years ago which had been welded both sides of the frame between the end of the gussetts and the rear seat loop where the tubes had fractured, caused by carrying overweight rear carrier (and/or passenger?!!!!). Honda obviously recognised the inherent frame weakness during the K0 run at some so far unknown VIN, and lengthened the gussets to strengthen the frame in this region. Seems there were at least 10,000 suitable frames made which could be used for the repair. Good luck with it.
- Chris R.
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hi steven,
yes will post some pics soon, some of the new kitchen appliances arrived friday, been quite busy. no long weekend for me. i may have to roll the sandy out into the sun tommow or the next day to check the finish, shops lights are hard to tell by. we are having another heat wave it seems and i put a split system ptac air conditoner in my shop this year 8) don't open the door much when it's so hot. hoping for some fall days soon. in the 90's and super humid today. long summer!
thanks for the heads up chris. if someone can post some pics maybe my welder can do something about the gussets. the frame has already been butchered badly, and by buying this bike i saved it from the scrap heap, so if it's not 100% correct and perfect, well it's better than getting melted down into a moped ;D the damage has been done to this bike. i just don't think it will ever be 100%. it's too late to be an original. all i can do is make it complete and running again. i have already pretty much decided i will use some non-correct things and some re-pop things. and i can always go back later and easily add correct shocks and mirrors and stuff as budget permits. if i try and return it exactly it will take forever. what i will do is use 100% of the original parts i have, and do stuff like make gussets "appear" correct if it can be done.
cheers, john
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ok guys and girls,
i am getting to the age where a digital camera and wide screen laptop work a lot better than my k-mart reading glasses ::)
first off... WHO THE &8@% USED THE ?@*^!@%$# CRESCENT WRENCH TO CHANGE THE *%!@?)(%$$@ OIL BACK IN THE DAY??? ever heard of a six point socket??? oh well probably back in like '71 when NO ONE had a metric six point socket. well that sux. never saw it until it was on the wide screen. >:(
hey that gives me an idea... man my eyes aren't getting any better... crap i can probably duct tape some shocks and fenders to this thing... in a couple more years i won't even be able to SEE the difference... :D
well i tried to show what my crappy eyes can see in real life, NO WAY is the oil filter cover the same as the side covers. whilst the motor side covers have (i think!!) a satin rubbed finish and some kind of clear coat, i would say the filter cover is painted grey. i can see much clearer on the wide screen some definate chips in the paint from road dust. remember this bike only had 8900 miles on it. there is not MUCH for chips but definately there. looks to me at least, to be a perfect match for the lower motor case, the top is greasy.
i will document it some day and figure out how to post the pictures here and not on photobucket, just in case. before i pull the filter cover, i figured i would spray the entire motor with panther piss, wave magic chicken feathers over the bolt for a few hours, distracting the cover bolt demons long enuf to get the thing off without it seizing. maybe try soaking the bolt in some sake... that always loosens me up quite a bit hehe... oh man fall will be here soon, what a great time to drink some... if you have never had sake then you are missing a real treat! i found a sake carafe and two little cups at the asian market for like $10 a few years ago, can't remember the name brand of the sake but the local grocery store has it for maybe $15 a bottle... fill the carafe and microwave for maybe 40 seconds (ok maybe not proper but easy) and you have one of the best wines ever. have to have a few cups with old 1767 when it cools down. the best drink EVER for a chilly evening. dang good stuff the japanese have come up with!! ;) never checked but they have probably been making it for thousands of years... man one thing when you travel the world it's frickin' amazing how much older the history is in other parts of the world. i mean, for us in usa "ancient" history is some old stinky dried up indian moccasin that is 200 years old (and please, no offense to native americans, or even stinky old moccasins for that matter) i mean, the stuff just ISN'T that old. but hoooo boy take a canal tour in amsterdam and you are passing churches and buildings that are well over 1000 years old. never been to asia (yet!!! ;)) but even a way deeper older history. what a neat place. what an amazing world with so many diverse things. anyways i guess i have wandered off subject. see ya.
cheers, john
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/sparkingdogg/IMG_0640.jpg)
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/sparkingdogg/IMG_0641-1.jpg)
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/sparkingdogg/IMG_0642-1.jpg)
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/sparkingdogg/IMG_0643-1.jpg)
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/sparkingdogg/IMG_0644-1.jpg)
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/sparkingdogg/IMG_0645-1.jpg)
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/sparkingdogg/IMG_0646-1.jpg)
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/sparkingdogg/IMG_0647-1.jpg)
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John, it's easy enough to upload pics from your own file/library/"my pictures" w/o going to the trouble of photo bucket. If i can upload pics to the discussion board from my pictures, anybody can. It's true. Ask KP or Wayne.
i'm so envious of that thin lip alt.cover, i need to put a bib on.
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Yeah, Mr Swan makes you believe he is challenged but in fact he is a very bright boy and quick on the uptake let me tell you :o
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John, it's easy enough to upload pics from your own file/library/"my pictures" w/o going to the trouble of photo bucket. If i can upload pics to the discussion board from my pictures, anybody can. It's true. Ask KP or Wayne.
i'm so envious of that thin lip alt.cover, i need to put a bib on.
ok steve, i will get it figured out soon.
and thanks... it's nice to know something on this old girl is so valueable.
ok... i need to start looking ahead, and i need some advice here. please!! i have 3 sets of k2 forks. 2 sets have longer "chopper" tubes. the other set looks dingy and dull but just cosmetics, they look to be very original and in good shape for rebuilding. i am having trouble finding any info on forks. i see on the fiches that there are two different models for k0... assuming early and late? the "late" numbers match the k2 so how correct are k2 forks to use??
i have a really clean k2 top bridge i think i will use, i just can't see spending $500 at this point for the narrow nose one. is the triple clamp/steering stem the same for sand cast and k2? i have a different k2 with a nice lower clamp.
trying to think what all i need to get the repaired frame back to rolling condition. i am going to need some k0 fork ears of course. been thinking of the yamiya set of gold tins. question: has anyone placed a large order with yamiya?? any discount on it?? looking at the repop tins for $2k, the repop seat for $1k, and the repop exhaust for another $2k +. seems with a $5k+ order maybe there would be a discount. just curious what past experiences have brought. if i piece together the tins, seat, and pipes it's going to take way long. i don't mind dumping some money into the proper repop stuff. any other good options besides yamiya? i know i am asking for all your secrets, haha... i just want to have a game plan before i get in deep. heck with repop fenders and stuff it will probably be over $7k.
so... with frame repairs and replacing all the missing stuff i would think i will be in well over $10k in no time. what the heck is this thing worth?? i am not doing it for profit, it's much more a passion to see it as original as i can make it. but in the past i have dumped $$ into a bike and come out way in the red. it was on a much smaller scale. makes me a little nervous to tie up a lot of $$ and be in the red when done. would like to consider this bike as an asset (although it will probably never be sold) and figuring out the value of these things seems nearly impossible. would it be safe to assume it will be worth $15k when done and running? also have to think of a number for insurance down the road.
cheers, john
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main missing pieces, advice is welcome!!
1-- full set of tins
2-- seat
3-- exhaust
4-- rear rolled rim and spoke set
5-- fenders
6-- forks
7-- triple clamps
8-- turn signals
9-- mirrors
10-- petcock/cap
thanks in advance for any tips!!
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man i'm having a hard time deciding what to do. afraid of dumping too much $$ on high end repop stuff. it's so hard to research what these bikes are worth. i think i might be better off waiting for a complete k0 parts bike. might have to get this thing to a roller state and hold off until one is found. feeling kind of uneasy about putting too much $$ into her. the yamiya stuff sure looks nice but dang he sure is proud of it. don't get very many parts for $7k, do you? oh well, haven't even began to tear 1767 down yet. anybody have a clean k0 parts bike in the $300 range? oh you need to be within maybe 400 miles or so hehe ::) anyways this project isn't even started yet and i'm already getting a headache... thinking now of maybe taking the frame repairs first and slowly collecting what all i need. an any advice on k2 compatability would be much appreciated. and is there any option other than the $2k+ repop pipes? i have a set of k2's with some rust holes, i have no idea if they can be restored. i already know they aren't correct and all. i'm just really feeling uneasy about this thing becoming a money pit. it's just missing sooooo many key components. the last thing i want to do is roll it back into a dark corner and let it sit for years. oh well anyways i better get to work. trying to make some room so i can begin 1767's tear down in the next couple weeks. cheers.
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First, i'd use what, any and all parts you have to get the thing running and on the road. Screw correctness. Then, decide if it's a keeper for you. Or, not. If the bike has no personal value and you're only looking at it from a dollars and cents standpoint, then i'd be a bit more careful what i'd drop in it. Pristine correct restoration, should be worth minimum $22.5k If you piece it together and with non "K0" parts and expect to make a big profit..... probably not. If you piece it together with non "K0" parts to ride and enhjoy and snag a "K0" donor bike when one turns up at a good price, that's a good plan for making a reasonalbly correct restoration. At least that's my opinion.
If it's a keeper, then keep your eye open for a "K0" donor. They are out there. There's one waiting for you.
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thanks steve... i have $7k to drop on the tins and stuff if i want to... the numbers were making me nervous a bit. just from an investment view. i mean... i have two little kids, got remarried later in life. if sumthin' happened to the old dogg... well i would want to think that i would leave some assets for them to LIVE on that a pile of pretty TINS and such that are worth 50 cents on the dollar.
i'm not flipping the bike. i was actually thinking of the anamosa iowa national motorcycle museum, i don't think they have a sand cast. i was thinking of a 10 year loan or something. it's certainly not going to be a rider. i have plenty of modern bikes to ride on the cheap. it's totally being done as a prized possession that should be admired.
mr. swan... let me ask you this directly. i am going to fully doc the resto, just to be clear. i have the bike in pristine condition. you want to add it to your collection. would you pay the full value? remember, the frame is NOT 100% original. it has been cut and welded. THAT is what worries me the most. the repaired frame. is the bike now worth $12k?
anyways thanks for the advice, i think i will wait on the tins and such. would have been real nice to put the ears on now. i have never cared to work on the cb750 forks, royal pita imho.i love the way they look but hate to take the ears on and off. was really trying to think ahead on stuff like that. will probably just keep an eye out for a k0 donor. hope to get it running soon though. having the tin set would be really nice (btw i think the sand cast was never gold, but i sure like the look) and figure the yamiya's were the way to go. do they detract from the value though?? over original and oem parts?? ???
cheers, john
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Honda-CB750-K0-Refreshed-Engine-Beautiful-Unrestored-Chassis-/150891871394?forcev4exp=true#ht_4142wt_948 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Honda-CB750-K0-Refreshed-Engine-Beautiful-Unrestored-Chassis-/150891871394?forcev4exp=true#ht_4142wt_948)
John, something like this would be ideal, rather than spending lots of money on Repop parts.
Even a close to correct, complete sandcast is worth decent $. A lot of this stuff is in decent original condition, and being early K0, shares a lot of the things which buyers of an original sandcast look for.
Decent chrome and original paint, solid parts which aren't scrap, all combine to make a nice original bike, which is easier to sell than a basket case. Then, as funds allow, it canbe restored bit by bit, and you know it is worth your time and effort as it will have its value at the end.
A good original bike might not pull as much as a restored one, but it is what a lot of restorers want so they know exactly what they are buying. Big pluses for you are the early hard to find stuff you have, making it worth that extra bit.
The parts not used would recover alot of your expense when ebayed.
Downside- its not cheap to spend it all upfront like this. But it would be good as you are not butchering an original bike, you already have a K0 frame closer suited to that engine which could allow you to almost build up another complete K0 to sell off with the non orig parts which came with yours. Or you could sell it all off as parts and you may make more money this way.
You also don't have to wait hoping the parts bone along at the right price down the track.
Thanks for the oil filter pics and description- I posted the pics up on the oil filter thread I have been contributing too.
Regards,
Steven
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hi steven,
you are welcome for the pics, i will take lots more as time passes.
been super busy, hired a new helper for the shop. been working my fingers to the bone. time for some help. been working solo for about a year, so it was time.
i actually called this guy in nc, a nice guy he was... BUT although he wouldn't tell me the exact reserve, i think it was over 8 large. i got some quotes from uship for around $500. i'm not too sure the bike would have been worth $9000 delivered to my door. as for the frame, it was nice and around 10xxx but it had a chrome triple clamp/swing arm/oil tank. one exhaust pipe had a hole. the ducktail seat was hardened. the motor # was not correct. the carbs were k1 or k2. both side covers and the airbox were cracked. it had a few k1/k2/k? parts mixed in with it. the paint was smudged. i am NOT nitpicking a 1970 bike... but at 9 g's i would have expected the "list" to be shorter. i was thinking more like $6k or $7k tops but the seller made it clear that it wasn't enough to meet reserve price so i didn't even bid. the reserve might have even been $10k. i am not sure. i just didn't feel the "bang factor". it was and is a super nice bike, but it was not original. plus i was kind of worried about just how MANY k2 parts were on the bike. oh yeah it had a k2 front brake too, heck i already have 3 of those. man if i spend 10 large on a k0 it seems it should have EVERY part i need, plus make me back some $$$ on the motor. oh yeah, i think the k0 seller had maybe $3-4000 in motor work alone. but it was a higher number motor not an early k0. maybe i could have flipped the motor for $5k but i doubt it.
was thinking of making a chopper out of all the old cb750 chopper parts i have ;) but heck, i just got my head shaved since i don't have time to comb my hair. as much as i would like to build a chopper along with the sandie i guess it ain't going to happen. anyways thanks for the heads up, i am looking for a clean k0 for sure. be super nice to find one that didn't have $$$ worth of pro motor work done.
cheers, john
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John, there is no cure for what you have.......... sandcast fever. you poor, poor thing.
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Steve's right John. When I got 576 I remember myself as saying something like "I can't afford a full on restoration, and I'm not sure I have the skills to do the same" or something to that effect. Here I am, a couple of years later, scrounging the rare stuff, KP's correct brake lines, Mark's mirror stems, Lecrams face plates for the gauges, re-painting the black parts because they aren't glossy enough and the list goes on. It is indeed sandcast fever. ;D
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haw haw, thanks guys ;D
been really busy breaking in the new helper. saw another k0 on ebay, it was too far from being correct so i passed. the frame should be here any time. i will probably be pulling the motor this week or next, kinda nice to have extra hands. will maybe build a crate for it so i can flip it over and get the oil pan off. i already know what it is gonna look like :o since i have torn down 3-4 k2 motors. might as well get some stuff done on the motor as i am waiting for the frame. plan is:
1) get frame welding done, paint done, swing arm mounted
2) slap k2 front clip and rear wheel on temporarily, so i can roll it around
3) drop cleaned and adjusted motor in frame
4) wait for the right k0 to come along for donor parts
5) wait some more, everyone seems to think non-correct k0's are worth a ton of money right now
hey... one question... i KNOW a wet cell battery is CORRECT but it seems to make sense to put a mf dry cell in. the wet ones can sure make a mess. opinions?? what do you guys run?? hate to see acid drip on new paint!
cheers, john
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Hi, regarding vnz00 and hondasan speaking about the shock brackets. I try to attach a couple of pictures from my K2-frame and one from my newly started restoration of my second Sandy - 1005321. You can clearly see the differences from bracket length (short is Sandcast) and radius (on K2-bracket). I also have a frame with the short bracket with no 1025997 so it should be possible to get one of this early frames on Ebay to marry your front end.
Good luck!
/Ken
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;) i will never buy a acid battery ever again ,i will always buy a gel battery from now on
one question... i KNOW a wet cell battery is CORRECT but it seems to make sense to put a mf dry cell in. the wet ones can sure make a mess. opinions?? what do you guys run?? hate to see acid drip on new paint!
i have used mf batteries (gel) on two of my CB750 k0's for the last two or three years with no problems ,the cranking speed seems a lot faster too,i used to go through a acid battery almost every year, they never lasted much longer than the warranty,i don't think acid batteries like to be left for long periods of non use
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hi everybody,
well the sandcast got pushed into my warehouse... i have suffered from a huge rash of breakdowns this last year. furnace/ac/vehicles/home repairs/kitchen appliances etc etc etc it seems everything crapped out all at once. between repairs and remodels, i have given every extra minute to my 2 year old and 4 year old. i pretty much had no choice but to put off any work on the old sandy. it was with a heavy heart that i trailered it to my warehouse and put it under a cover, a couple of months ago.
lo and behold, tonight i decided to get on evilbay and see if any early k0's were up for sale. i don't quite have the time to devote to the resto yet, but pretty much wanted to keep the fire burning. well well, i found an early k0 #93xx out in cali, for a reasonable price, and went ahead and bought her. all original with wrinkle tank/ducktail seat/double cut fender, all the goodies i need to breathe life into my old girl.
now, finally, i can move ahead! i have spent the last hour poring over numbers... after selling all the chopper stuff off my sandy i think i will just about break even... so, for $0 i will have the frame neck, motor, gauges, front wheel, carbs, and a few other things. i will break down #93xx all the way, and sell off all of the parts i don't need, after doing so i will be into the start of this project for around $2500. i have to get the frame welding and painting done, the tins all painted, sure there will be some more cash out of pocket, but holy toledo for $2500 i will basically have a whole fairly early sand cast (albeit in parts) which i would have never dreamed was possible! and the motor is intact and runs on my sandie!
for the first time in about a year it seems my luck isn't bad!! ;D
will surely be seeking the boards advice in the coming months, and will be posting pics all along the way!
yipee!
cheers, john
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Congratulations John. Saw that K0 you got. Looked pretty good and appears to have most of what you need. Glad to see your fortune turning your way. I would be interested in buying the frame and motor from the K0 if the numbers are good on both and if you are interested in selling to help fund the SC.
Keith
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hi keith,
sure pm me or call me tomorrow at 4o2 612 8oo1 anytime after noon
i have to get back to work and make some $ ;)
all un-needed parts from 93xx will be sold off to help pay for the resto, selling stuff on evilbay doesn't pay all that well but i get to stay home with my little kids ;D
i was an electrical foreman in another life, but the economy went pretty sour for construction, selling parts is what i do!
cheers, john
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Nice work John- that early die cast will make life a lot easier for your restoration.