Honda CB750 Sandcast
The Restoration Shop => Exhaust => Topic started by: Sgt.Pinback on March 16, 2014, 11:49:23 am
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Can you please tell me which came when?
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wow. haven't seen that one b4 !
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wow. haven't seen that one b4 !
In sohc4 I heard, it is what you call "no number pipe" - is that correct?
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A picture of the end of the silencer showing the baffle would help. I recall some European market bikes (after the No no. pipes) were not stamped HM300, rather stamped as shown in Sgt Pinback's picture. They also had baffles without the vertical bar in the HM300 and earlier pipes - but NOT "341" type . There is a different part number shown for these markets (Germany, France, and a couple of others, etc), ending "620".
Cheers - Chris R.
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I have 4 NOS sets of carb needle kits which I bought in error to be used evidently with the German etc. exhausts. Wonder why they had a variation in exhaust types for these markets. Do you know Chris?
Cheers... AshD
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A picture of the end of the silencer showing the baffle would help. I recall some European market bikes (after the No no. pipes) were not stamped HM300, rather stamped as shown in Sgt Pinback's picture. They also had baffles without the vertical bar in the HM300 and earlier pipes - but NOT "341" type . There is a different part number shown for these markets (Germany, France, and a couple of others, etc), ending "620".
Cheers - Chris R.
I found an almost 30 year old photo when the bike was mine.
Here you see the baffles of that HMCB750 pipes.
Its the blue one on the right side.
(http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w461/Uli911/Beide1_zps5fe7cab0.jpg) (http://s1077.photobucket.com/user/Uli911/media/Beide1_zps5fe7cab0.jpg.html)
Chris, what do you think: was HMCB750 before or after HM300?
What is stamped on a "No number" pipe, does anybody have a photo?
BTW the story behind the bike/exhaust:
Those two K0 had been mine early 80th when I was a student. I made one good out of two. The green one was sold when finished, the blue one I traded some years later in 85 with a CBX 1000 at a local HONDA dealer.
That dealer kept the K0 for almost 25 years in a cellar. He passed away a few years ago. So she was sold. Sadly I didnt knew.
I found "my" KO yesterday in Stuttgart on the Retro Classic fair. Still has the same tyres!
She can be seen here:
http://www.motorradonline.de/testsfahrberichte/auf-achse-mit-honda-cb-750-four-muench-4-1200-tts-und-mv-agusta-750-s/527338#1-505896 (http://www.motorradonline.de/testsfahrberichte/auf-achse-mit-honda-cb-750-four-muench-4-1200-tts-und-mv-agusta-750-s/527338#1-505896)
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i'm talking about the "hmcb750" stamped on teh pipe. usually it's no stampings for sandcast. hm300 for some ko and all k1.
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A picture of the end of the silencer showing the baffle would help. I recall some European market bikes (after the No no. pipes) were not stamped HM300, rather stamped as shown in Sgt Pinback's picture. They also had baffles without the vertical bar in the HM300 and earlier pipes - but NOT "341" type . There is a different part number shown for these markets (Germany, France, and a couple of others, etc), ending "620".
Cheers - Chris R.
Hello
In France the french sandcast (vin 101xxxx) the k0 diecast and the k1 received this exhaust called hmcb750
The baffle is différent There is only 1 circle on the hm cb750 the 341 got 2 circles baffle
The hmcb750 baffle CAN be removed like the hm300
The hm300 is more loud than the hmcb750
The hmcb750 is more loud than the 341
As far i Know this exhaust Was on the french german switzerland ...spain
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I have 4 NOS sets of carb needle kits which I bought in error to be used evidently with the German etc. exhausts. Wonder why they had a variation in exhaust types for these markets. Do you know Chris?
Cheers... AshD
Please can you give me the number engraved on the needle
Thank you
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[/quote]
Hello
In France the french sandcast (vin 101xxxx) the k0 diecast and the k1 received this exhaust called hmcb750
The baffle is différent There is only 1 circle on the hm cb750 the 341 got 2 circles baffle
The hmcb750 baffle CAN be removed like the hm300
The hm300 is more loud than the hmcb750
The hmcb750 is more loud than the 341
As far i Know this exhaust Was on the french german switzerland ...spain
[/quote]
Good info, thanks.
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I have 4 NOS sets of carb needle kits which I bought in error to be used evidently with the German etc. exhausts. Wonder why they had a variation in exhaust types for these markets. Do you know Chris?
Cheers... AshD
i'm suspecting it was government noise regulation. i've always understood europe had/has stricter noise/pollution laws than usa.
since a more restrictive exhaust would would affect a/f intake and exhaust flow, you'd have to adjust a/f ratios, using different needles, nozzles and jetting.
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I have 4 NOS sets of carb needle kits which I bought in error to be used evidently with the German etc. exhausts. Wonder why they had a variation in exhaust types for these markets. Do you know Chris?
Cheers... AshD
Please can you give me the number engraved on the needle
Thank you
Guess it was something to do with noise restriction then and explains the needle sets I have. They would have been used for the different carburation needed for the more restrictive exhausts.
The P/N of the kit is 16012-300-611. I will try to read the number but they are in unopened Honda packaging containing needle, jet and little circlip.
Cheers ... AshD
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So there were no HM300 in France/Germany....?
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So there were no HM300 in France/Germany....?
Attached what info I have available. Sorry didn't scan properly (Too early in the morning !!!!!!). The 1st column on the right, after the description is CB750, second is K1 and third is K2 ! Obviously the 'CB750' is the earliest part but unsure if 'K0' or Sandcast, as there is probably much earlier parts book than the one I have. The 'diffuser' Part Number is different too, as Chris suggested.
The last info on the right are the country codes and looks like France, Germany, Holland for the exhausts with the '420' suffix but I may be wrong. The two letter code is a bit fuzzy but may be 'European Direct Sales' .... Sure ChrisR will know these codes!! Will check the engravings on the needles tonight.
Wonder what internal design later HM300's were made to in terms of noise, emissions etc. Maybe they did not meet the German ect. standards or maybe changed to a 'harmonized' standard? If the latter, which carb needes should we use with the last batches of HM300's with the 'verbage' stamped onto them. Will have to venture into the loft and read the 'verbage' on my NOS set.
Cheers .. AshD
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I have 4 NOS sets of carb needle kits which I bought in error to be used evidently with the German etc. exhausts. Wonder why they had a variation in exhaust types for these markets. Do you know Chris?
Cheers... AshD
Please can you give me the number engraved on the needle
Thank you
Guess it was something to do with noise restriction then and explains the needle sets I have. They would have been used for the different carburation needed for the more restrictive exhausts.
The P/N of the kit is 16012-300-611. I will try to read the number but they are in unopened Honda packaging containing needle, jet and little circlip.
Cheers ... AshD
Hello
if you arrived that will be cool to give us this great info !!
thank you
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That would be interesting.
I have some spare ("German") KO (diecast) carbs here and may have a look as well.
There is a number on the needle? I assume it is shorter/longer (?) Or are there other jets (bigger/smaller) ?
I thought that european setting was due to high speed needs.
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That would be interesting.
I have some spare ("German") KO (diecast) carbs here and may have a look as well.
There is a number on the needle? I assume it is shorter/longer (?) Or are there other jets (bigger/smaller) ?
I thought that european setting was due to high speed needs.
I think the Jets in the kits are the same but the needles are different.
Cheers ... AshD
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That would be interesting.
I have some spare ("German") KO (diecast) carbs here and may have a look as well.
There is a number on the needle? I assume it is shorter/longer (?) Or are there other jets (bigger/smaller) ?
I thought that european setting was due to high speed needs.
I think the Jets in the kits are the same but the needles are different.
Cheers ... AshD
+1
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I have 4 NOS sets of carb needle kits which I bought in error to be used evidently with the German etc. exhausts. Wonder why they had a variation in exhaust types for these markets. Do you know Chris?
Cheers... AshD
Please can you give me the number engraved on the needle
Thank you
Guess it was something to do with noise restriction then and explains the needle sets I have. They would have been used for the different carburation needed for the more restrictive exhausts.
The P/N of the kit is 16012-300-611. I will try to read the number but they are in unopened Honda packaging containing needle, jet and little circlip.
Cheers ... AshD
The needle has this engraved on it 271301. with No 'K' Keihin mark but are in genuine Honda bags (jets have no markings)
The original used ones from my 9/69 diecast carbs are marked K27201
Hope this helps.
cheers ... AshD
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I have 4 NOS sets of carb needle kits which I bought in error to be used evidently with the German etc. exhausts. Wonder why they had a variation in exhaust types for these markets. Do you know Chris?
Cheers... AshD
Please can you give me the number engraved on the needle
Thank you
Guess it was something to do with noise restriction then and explains the needle sets I have. They would have been used for the different carburation needed for the more restrictive exhausts.
The P/N of the kit is 16012-300-611. I will try to read the number but they are in unopened Honda packaging containing needle, jet and little circlip.
Cheers ... AshD
The needle has this engraved on it 271301. with No 'K' Keihin mark but are in genuine Honda bags (jets have no markings)
The original used ones from my 9/69 diecast carbs are marked K27201
Hope this helps.
cheers ... AshD
hello and thank you very much
read the post
http://cb750sandcastonly.com/smf_forum/index.php?topic=1131.msg7800#msg7800 (http://cb750sandcastonly.com/smf_forum/index.php?topic=1131.msg7800#msg7800)
i'm pretty sure that the difference of needle is due to the difference of exhaust between the country..
thank for your help
regarding your early diecast is it a US model? or original UKModel?
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Gentlemen.....
got it!
http://www.ebay.de/itm/191097594900?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 (http://www.ebay.de/itm/191097594900?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649)
Correct pipes for my "German" KO.
Thanks for info!
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It's a UK bike VIN 10103xx. benjixt
If anyone in Europe want's to direct exchange 4 NOS sets of the HM300 needle jet kits for my 'European' style set (Genuine Honda kits P/N 16012-300-611) I will gladly do so.
But the replacements would have to be Genuine Honda parts, not aftermarket.
Cheers ... AshD
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