Honda CB750 Sandcast
General Category => Member's Bikes => Topic started by: Sam on October 07, 2014, 10:22:13 pm
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I'm still deep into the restoration of #1629 (http://cb750sandcastonly.com/smf_forum/index.php?topic=1299.0), but I thought I would show you guys my 2nd sandcast...#410 (with engine #436). It was parked in 1972 and just found by a fellow member before I bought it. It isn't running and there is a lot of corrosion...but I am pretty excited about it!
I am pretty sure that it is 100% original.
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5609/15287666799_687df0a5db_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/phVhJ4)
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3952/15471425621_c7853b7fc5_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pza6PB)
The paint is surprisingly good. Only a tiny nick here and there in the tank...no dents!
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2948/15287665819_e2dbdfda71_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/phVhra)
When I took the tank off, I got a wonderful surprise...it is a 19L tank! Here's a pic comparing it to the 17L wrinkle tank for #1629 (not yet painted):
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5597/15287653729_f6a5684ce8_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/phVdQH)
Some more goodies...
Thin lip alternator cover (showing a nice example of the corrosion I will need to deal with....fortunately, this is not aluminum corrosion, but the clear coat going bad):
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3931/15287661459_40d1452d20_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/phVg8Z)
Lotus roots pipes (polished quickly for the first photo):
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3933/15287990307_5c995f5250_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/phWWTM)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5608/15474550595_01e456cdf6_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pzr7Lt)
All "8" bolts where they should be (haven't found any incorrect bolts yet):
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2948/15287854790_ea605b0ea4_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/phWfBh)
Early brake caliper hex bolts (note the texture on the side of the bolt):
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3930/15287981347_5b75578ed1_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/phWUei)
Smooth oil lines:
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2948/15451460926_5afb6f7dee_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pxoM1J)
Round oil filter cover:
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3934/15451462736_d0dd8b0346_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pxoMxW)
Recessed ignition:
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3951/15451458966_12a2a461c8_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pxoLqW)
The gauges look very clean! No cracks, thats a reflection in the photo:
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5616/15287972117_9a4ca52d41_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/phWRua)
Not pictured includes a rounded rear rim, red seat foam, double cut front fender, two-hole rear fender, no-pointer kill switch and many other goodies.
A few items are missing: the left-handed horn (I have a spare), the left mirror and the "28" carb caps. Other than that, it appears to all be there.
I haven't decided exactly what I will do with this bike. I think there may simply be too much corrosion to keep this bike as a survivor; I am leaning towards a full restoration. Though I would hate to repaint it...I'm really happy with the paint!
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Nice find - they are still out there!
Fuel tap looks a bit "odd" / different? outlets are usually at the back, vertically downwards. Is it a short neck tap, or some other replacement?
Cheers - Chris R.
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Can you tell more of the details. Where did you find it ? Was it original owner ? Did seller know what they had ?
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Nice snag on getting a three didgit sandcast bike. It looks like it has most if not all the rare'r hard to find parts including the 19 liter tank. A fair amount of work ahead but will be well worth it in the end result. Marty K.
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I am pretty sure that it is 100% original. Quote
Except the Rubber grip left and right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D
Congratulations for this magnificent find..
I have the clammy hands for you!! ;) ;)
Gerard
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Indeed the fuel tap is different from my other sandcast. I have a Japanese sandcast book that details sandcast #8. It has the same fuel tap, so I am pretty sure it is correct. When I get home, I'll take a few more pictures of it. It is definitely shorter!
The bike was purchased originally in Louisiana. The original owner died a year or two later and the family kept the bike in their garage (barn?) until it was found by a fellow forum member. I bought it from him.
Ha! 4pots1969, you are right. Also, I think the tires are not original. The front is a continental and the back is a brand that I am not familiar with. Originals were dunlop right?
I am tempted to get the bike running great and only remove the rust....in other words, keep it original. What do you guys think? More valuable original (cleaned up as much as possible without crossing the line) or as a fully-restored bike?
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Great find!
I am curious about the gauges what drive bodies these have. Can you post a picture of these?
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Indeed the fuel tap is different from my other sandcast. I have a Japanese sandcast book that details sandcast #8. It has the same fuel tap, so I am pretty sure it is correct. When I get home, I'll take a few more pictures of it. It is definitely shorter!
The bike was purchased originally in Louisiana. The original owner died a year or two later and the family kept the bike in their garage (barn?) until it was found by a fellow forum member. I bought it from him.
Ha! 4pots1969, you are right. Also, I think the tires are not original. The front is a continental and the back is a brand that I am not familiar with. Originals were dunlop right?
I am tempted to get the bike running great and only remove the rust....in other words, keep it original. What do you guys think? More valuable original (cleaned up as much as possible without crossing the line) or as a fully-restored bike?
Excellent find. I congratulate you. I would definitely just clean it up and leave as is. Original and unrestored will always be worth more and is more attractive in the market. It's surprising how well things can clean up with the right products and elbow grease. Having said you may want to restore it for your own personal pleasure.
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Nice find - they are still out there!
Fuel tap looks a bit "odd" / different? outlets are usually at the back, vertically downwards. Is it a short neck tap, or some other replacement?
Cheers - Chris R.
It does look odd.... But, the distance between the lever and the tank trim, certainly looks like "short neck distance."
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Not sure what to make of this fuel tap. It has a short neck for sure. But the fuel lines are on the side; not the back.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3952/15483258982_f5452833c8_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pAcKt5)
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3944/15483259502_257bd73fc0_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pAcKC3)
Interestingly, the Japanese book on sandcasts that features sandcast #8 has a fuel tap that appears to have the side fuel lines "chopped" off:
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3941/15297128618_110da5d993_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/piKMoS)
The text below (thanks to OCR and Google translate) says:
Fuel cock's initial ~Kaga `feature between mosquito Isuzu 丶箋 Hisashii of fuel Yun-click inside one of Tsu. Hole 2 things over" `prototype of such` CL72 is the `lever ... have been cut.
Is it possible that this is a CL72 fuel tap? ???
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Great find!
I am curious about the gauges what drive bodies these have. Can you post a picture of these?
I'll be happy to when I start in on this bike. For now, #1629 is getting all of my attention.
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Picture of original petcock on #302 - appears same as #8.
Cheers - Chris R.
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Ok. Looks like I have a fuel tap from a CL72. Looks just about identical to this:
(http://images.cmsnl.com/img/products/body-fuel-cock_medium16951216000-01_bc6f.jpg)
...which CMSNL says is intended for the CB160.
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Congratulation!! What a find.
Please restore it very carefully, or just clean it up and keep it as it is.
Some day, t will be the last original unrestored sandcast.
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Ha! No pressure right? ;D
My current plan:
- Complete the restoration of #1629
- Disassemble #410 and remove as much corrosion as possible
- Rebuild the engine, rebuild the brakes, etc
- Leave the bike original, ride it, bring it to shows and enjoy a piece of motorcycle history
- Maybe someday restore it if I can be convinced that it will be better restored
Someone on here said it well: "Its only original once."
Thats the plan ;D
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Get some Strongarm rust remover. It's incredible. Google it.
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Don't restore. I would suggest you get a small above ground swimming pool. Use a hoist to put the bike inside the pool. Remove the seat. Lay the bike on its side. Fill the pool with evaporust. Once a day take the bike out and pressure wash the corrosion off. If you keep this up for a week or so the corrosion will be gone. The paint will shine.
The only down side is that the amount of evaporust to fill the pool will cost about $5,000.
Other than that, put the seat back on and you will have a nice bike !
LOL
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Good plan.
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Do not restore, just do a good cleaning and detailing it will do this bike a great justice to it's originality. Sit back and admire. Marty K.
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Do not restore, just do a good cleaning and detailing it will do this bike a great justice to it's originality. Sit back and admire. Marty K.
Get some Strongarm rust remover. It's incredible. Google it.
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What a great bike you have there, i agree with others that keeping it unrestored is a good move, there cant be many left in that condition,
pete
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Steve, I get the impression you are a fan of StrongArm ;D
For the record, I have some and will use it for sure.
I plan to use Quick-Glo on the chrome (love this stuff).
Has anyone had a good experience with a product that will remove rust and not paint? For example, the frame has little speaks of rust surrounded by good paint. How do I get just the rust off and not damage the paint?
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Love quickglo too
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While working on #1629, curiosity got the best of me....how bad are these wheels? What follows will sound like a Quick-Glo advertisement. ;D
Here's a closeup of a section of the rear wheel:
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3937/15514742812_5547b7d4e7_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pCZ7vJ)
After maybe three minutes with Quick-Glo and a paper towel, I had this:
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5613/15515146315_9c197a16b0_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pD2bsF)
Not bad huh? :o
The cool part is that Quick-Glo includes wax, so the rust won't return quickly.
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Can you tell me if you perceive a tiny gram of paint on this engine which was apparently never desecrated??
Because personally I do not see a paint on the photos of the engine..
It would allow to drive things forward on this interrogation because I have the firm conviction that engine cranckases Sandcast was not painted by the factory Honda..
Many Thanks, Gerard
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Yes, the engine has paint for sure.
Every sandcast I have ever seen has paint and Vic world is positive that Honda painted their engines. Frankly, it would have been foolish for honda to not paint their engines; they would have corroded very quickly here in California! ;D
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By the 1960s , G.N.Gonzales was a Honda distributor with a territory that covered the South East and the middle third of the United States. GN Gonzales grew through the '70s and '80s to become a premiere Honda, Yamaha and Kawasaki dealership with the largest motorcycle showroom in the world.
In 1969 word got around town that GN had (2) 4 cylinder Hondas on the show room floor. This attracted lots of rider into the dealership to see these machines.
This bike is one of these original bikes. Mr. Green worked for the USPS and bought this bike in 1969. He was the kind of guy who bought all the "First" items sold. The "cutting edge of technology"guy. Mr. Green dided in 1972 leaving this bike to his brother.
I had heard about this bike being under Mr. Green's brothers carport about 5 years ago, but there was two friends of mine who had dibbs on it before I could buy it. The first guy in line died, and the second guy decided he did not want it. So one Saturday morning looking thru my emails, I came across the phone number, made the call an arranged a viewing that morning. By noon, it was on the trailer and headed to my house.
I've been building and restoring bikes for the last 40 years and just did not want to do anymore. I listed it here that Sat afternoon, and sold it Sunday morning to the proud new owner.
Now I'm hunting for the other one.
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Thanks for sharing the history of this bike. It is now safe and sound in Santa cruz California.
I hope to start in on it around the first of the year!
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Restoration complete!!
I managed to keep all of the original Candy Blue Green paint. It polished up wonderfully!
The engine, frame and most of the chrome needed to be redone. New zinc too of course.
Very pleased with the results. I'll be showing this bike and bike #1387 at the Quail Motorcycle Gathering (http://signatureevents.peninsula.com/en/motorcycle/motorcycle.html)
Here's a few pics:
(https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7791/16878533884_02337223c5_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/rHuU5U)
(https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7727/17313495590_84b38e4b06_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/snWc3E)
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Very nice preservation work.
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Did you compare 410 to the "Distinctions" list to see what parts 410 shares with earlier vins ? Does it have the "no fill line" inside m.cyl reservoir? Are vents on carbs parallel or perpendicular to slides ? Does it have 11 mm mirror stems ?
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And, as Marcel asked... speedo/tach drive boxes.... machined square or a cast bevel ?
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Just noticed that this bike made it into the September/October 2015 issue of Motorcycle Classics Magazine. Page 58.