Honda CB750 Sandcast
General Category => New Member Introductions => Topic started by: Gutz on October 12, 2016, 01:53:44 pm
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Hello all from a total newbie to the forum and Honda's. I always new my father-in-law had two bikes in his garage hoard but I finally convinced him to let me take them off his hand to get running. These pictures show the unveiling - pretty stoked with what I found. When I started researching I really started to fall in love with the allure of this bike and classic bikes in general. So I'm in!
He is the original owner #778 1969 CB750 with very few mods. The pipes were sold in a garage sale without his permission, of course. I'm handy but definitely no wrencher, so a tear down is beyond me. Both bikes were driven into these spots in the garage and sat there supporting junk and boxes. The V65 was running 5 years ago and the CB about 23 years ago.
I really need some ideas of what I should do and I know this group has great ones. I'm considering 2 basic strategies.
1. Tune-up and do a classic look with some modern mods. Modern mods meaning whatever folks are doing to engine, carbs, filters, electrical to make it run better and look cooler. Also some subdued cosmetic mods, like pipes and handlebars. I would want the bike to look classic but upgraded, basically.
2. Total restore. I would do a my best to keep original, but probably not to the level that many of you have gone because I can't do all that stuff myself. I like the look but my concern is that if you don't go all the way, you just have a cool classic bike...that looks classic (old).
Whichever route I go, I don't want to devalue the bike in anyway. So I could use suggestions from all of you with experience on what my approach should be. Don't want to mess anything up. Your thoughts and suggestions are much appreciated. Thanks.
P.S. The bike was originally candy red. So should Candy red be my choice? With either of my options, I will likely get the factory paint.
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Hello all from a total newbie to the forum and Honda's. I always new my father-in-law had two bikes in his garage hoard but I finally convinced him to let me take them off his hand to get running. These pictures show the unveiling - pretty stoked with what I found. When I started researching I really started to fall in love with the allure of this bike and classic bikes in general. So I'm in!
He is the original owner #778 1969 CB750 with very few mods. The pipes were sold in a garage sale without his permission, of course. I'm handy but definitely no wrencher, so a tear down is beyond me. Both bikes were driven into these spots in the garage and sat there supporting junk and boxes. The V65 was running 5 years ago and the CB about 23 years ago.
I really need some ideas of what I should do and I know this group has great ones. I'm considering 2 basic strategies.
1. Tune-up and do a classic look with some modern mods. Modern mods meaning whatever folks are doing to engine, carbs, filters, electrical to make it run better and look cooler. Also some subdued cosmetic mods, like pipes and handlebars. I would want the bike to look classic but upgraded, basically.
2. Total restore. I would do a my best to keep original, but probably not to the level that many of you have gone because I can't do all that stuff myself. I like the look but my concern is that if you don't go all the way, you just have a cool classic bike...that looks classic (old).
Whichever route I go, I don't want to devalue the bike in anyway. So I could use suggestions from all of you with experience on what my approach should be. Don't want to mess anything up. Your thoughts and suggestions are much appreciated. Thanks.
P.S. The bike was originally candy red. So should Candy red be my choice? With either of my options, I will likely get the factory paint.
Please accept a warm welcome to SOOC. a good way to start out is by sharing your name so we can get to know you as someone other than "Gutz." quite a number of us have been on the forum for a number of years, we're small in number, but high in passion for the sandcasts and over the years some of us have got to know each other quite well. sharing our birth names builds a familiarity and courtesy we all enjoy as we always look forward to hearing from each other.
These engines run perfectly fine in modern day traffic when kept in stock original form. you say you don't want to do anything to devalue the bike, then it is best to bring it back to an complete, as correct as possible original state. "upgrades," pipes, handlebars or the like will devalue a 3 digit vin.
i would suggest, start by a thorough cleaning and inspection to determine not only the condition of original finish but also what has been degraded by "patina." as long as the original black paint is not too badly degraded, a conservation attempt is worthy of consideration.
i also suggest it's a good idea to study the parts on the bike to not only determine what original parts remain that are correct for a 7xx vin, but also to determine what is or is not missing or what parts have been replaced. for example, does your frame have the steering damper gusseting at the bottom of the head stock as seen on earlier vin frames ?
i very much encourage you to research the forum, learn from the forum the distinctions you can expect to find on your 7xx. quite a bit of the information you seek or answers to your questions will be readily found when typing in a key word in "search." for example, the thread "88 model distinctions" will be a good start to aid your efforts to learn about your vin and increase your chances for members' participation in your thread.
we love seeing new vin pairs come to light ! good luck and share pictures with us what you find and learn !
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welcome aboard wow a one owner bike they are becoming harder and harder to find looks like you've got a gem there Steve's right in all that he has said. This is the best forum on the sandcast bikes that's out here I think I get on the site and read every day
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Nothing to add to the good advices of our friend Steve ... but simply welcome on this forum SOOC!! ;)
Gerard
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Thanks for the quick replies and welcomes. My name is Mike but most of my friends call me Gutz (pronounced Gootz).
So that's a +2 for the full restore.
I'll definitely post more pics once I get past a couple of trips and get the bike cleaned up. If there is anything I can do to contribute let me know. If there is a specific picture I can add for you, please ask. I don't think he changed much on this bike other that the pipes, paint and a little extender to the chain guard to protect the passenger. Most of the bike should be close to how he bought it from the Inglewood, CA dealership just up the freeway. He told me he had to pay extra to get moved up the waiting list back then, because everyone wanted this bike. He painted a couple of years later because all you ever saw was the candy red. He worked at Continental Airlines and had the guys guys in the garage paint it for him to be different.
Here's my initial phase 1 (start test) plan of attack from what I've been reading.
1. Finish de-rusting the tank. This is PIA already but not as bad as the Sabre tank. I'm using cleaning vinegar from Walmart. working so far. I don't think I will need to seal it and it doesn't seem like thats the preferred method. I guess I will need to install an in-line fuel filter?
2. Take the seat off, cover all holes and give a simple green bath. Hose down and give a WD40 bath. Hose Down next day.
3. Couple of teaspoons of Marvel MO in the plugs. cover plugs and let sit for a couple of days.
4. Change oil & filter. Pan?
5. Clean Air box and replace filter.
6. turn her over from time to time to get the oil moving.
7. If she turns, clean the carbs. Do I need to go straight to a rebuild kit? I saw a deluxe rebuild kit on vintage750.com.
Please let me know what you think about the order and what I'm probably missing. Thanks in advance.
Thanks,
Mike
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Looks like a great initial approach, Mike.
i like to drop the sump pan in cases where an engine has not ran for decades, you'll find 'dirt' has settled in the pan after sitting that long. before i make initial start of engine, i pour about 3/4 quart of oil through the #1 valve inspection opening, this way the pump will prime and not have to starve until oil gets down from the tank to the pump. it may be a good idea to flush the oil tank if the oil is dirty, at least when the tank is empty, inspect for sludge, most oil tanks have sludge.
if you have access to an ultrasonic for cleaning the carbs, that's the most effective way to clean carbs. other than bowl gaskets, i generally don't replace any carb parts until after i have the engine running. other than the chrome plated slides, needles and needle jets there really are not any moving parts to wear unless the air screws have been screwed in past their stopping point. i wound up having to replace the needles and needle jets on E2241 to get rid of a severe off idle stagger that would occur when opening the throttle off idle underway in the lower gears. of course, clean the bowl on the fuel tap, replace the tap washers if the tap leaks.
i've never used vinegar for rust removal, but i have heard vinegar (and molasses) works really well. i like using Oxalic acid aka wood bleach, it is available in hardware stores, very gentle and very effective. in more severe cases of rust, i use 3% Phosphoric acid solution (Naval Jelly) in the most severe electrolysis. any residual rust, i put 3/8" and 1/2" nuts in the tank, pack the tank in foam and cycle it through the clothes dryer (no heat.) the result is beautiful raw steel.
probably a good idea to check valve clearances, clean/adjust or replace spark plugs, dress the points if pitted, check/adjust points gap and check ignition timing as well as adjust cam chain tension.
in 'dry' engines that've sat a long time without running, i like to put a few squirts of oil in each spark plug hole.
if you don't have a shop manual, good resource to have, an old clymers or chiltons will tell you what you need to know.
1. is your choke arm long or short ?
2. it looks like you carbs have the later non-28 caps ?
3. is your tank a 19 or 17 liter ? (there are two 17 liter tank types elsewhere and recently noted on the forum)
4. if your tank is 19 or early 17 liter, do you have a short neck (very rare) fuel tap ?
5. is your kill switch knob pointerless ?
6. appears you have the short neck upper brake line ?
7. very likely you have the later type sandcast gauge drives ?
8. are they ferrules on your oil lines the smooth, not ribbed type ?
9. are the oil lines smooth or webbed fabric ?
10. does your lower steering head have the gusseting for the steering damper ?
11. does your brake reservoir have a leveling ring ?
12. be sure to go to "88 model distinctions," you will be able to identify the various early parts unique to 3 digit and earlier vins !
13. last piece of advice (for now!) throw no parts away ! quite a few of the parts unique to 3 digit vins are irreplaceable !
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Great find, Mike!
That bike is old and stood for a long time. So you have all the time to bring her back to live.
Dont change any parts unless you aks here! Even small parts as bolts and washers.
For rust removing, eg. tank, I use that stuff:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Rostio-Tankentroster-1-Liter-Konzentrat-Tankentrostung-Tank-entrosten-Rost-Tank-/121312781008?hash=item1c3ece22d0:g:UDkAAOSwEppUM7s5 (http://www.ebay.de/itm/Rostio-Tankentroster-1-Liter-Konzentrat-Tankentrostung-Tank-entrosten-Rost-Tank-/121312781008?hash=item1c3ece22d0:g:UDkAAOSwEppUM7s5)
Donīt know if you get it in USA.
I even use it in the ultrasonic bath to unrust small parts.
Wellcome to the SC club!
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Great find, Mike!
That bike is old and stood for a long time. So you have all the time to bring her back to live.
Dont change any parts unless you aks here! Even small parts as bolts and washers.
For rust removing, eg. tank, I use that stuff:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Rostio-Tankentroster-1-Liter-Konzentrat-Tankentrostung-Tank-entrosten-Rost-Tank-/121312781008?hash=item1c3ece22d0:g:UDkAAOSwEppUM7s5 (http://www.ebay.de/itm/Rostio-Tankentroster-1-Liter-Konzentrat-Tankentrostung-Tank-entrosten-Rost-Tank-/121312781008?hash=item1c3ece22d0:g:UDkAAOSwEppUM7s5)
Donīt know if you get it in USA.
I even use it in the ultrasonic bath to unrust small parts.
Wellcome to the SC club!
i would heartily second Uli's suggestion - Take your time and do the bike right. Catalog what you find so you have it for future use. there are a number of restoration threads on the forum, along with knowledgeable members, you really need very few specialized tools to work on on CB750, however in restoration work, some essential shop equipment is nearly a must. a wire wheel and a parts washer are 2 good universal items. after decades of cleaning carbs using an old gunk bath, i bought an ultrasonic unit which truly makes all the difference in the world as far as getting the tiny clogged air/fuel passageways back to performing the way they should. so either find someone who you can dip your carbs in their ultrasonic or buy an inexpensive unit (there's a bunch) on ebay.
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Hi Mike!
I bought a three-digit that hadn't run in 44 years and restored it...so it can be done!
It is important that you do this right...you have a valuable piece of history there!
Steve is, as usual, 100% correct on everything he said. A few things I will add:
1. Determine what you can save and what needs to be restored. This is tougher than it sounds. I was lucky with #410 and was able to save a lot with some hard work. Not all chrome needs to be redone for example. Take your time, clean, inspect, polish and polish some more. You may find that more of your bike can be simply rescued instead of restored!
2. If you aren't willing to go all-in on certain parts of the restoration (rebuilding the motor or doing the paint for example), find someone who will do a great job for you. I'm self-taught like many of us here...so I fully endorse the idea of learning it yourself. But if you don't have the time or interest, do yourself a favor and have it done by someone you trust. If this was a 1974 CB750 I would say something different...but you have a three digit sandcast there! The holy grail of Japanese collectible motorcycles! This bike deserves the best!
3. If it were me, I would keep it candy-ruby red when it comes time to repaint. The bike will thank you for restoring its original glory! :)
Looking forward to your progress!
Sam
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Keep it as stock as possible it only helps the value. Marty K.
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So hey Guys, had a couple of works trips but I'm back and very happy to have taken delivery of the bike. The obsession begins and my wife already hates it :o. I'm going to try to post some pics but the process of shrinking the file size then uploading is time prohibitive. What are you guys with Macs doing to quickly post pics? I'm going to try to copy the url from google photos here.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Un2QL7ASXhMaCGcZVE64p0FFEE1c-o8hFjDwxnkEBjOrna0N8UVb13fjIjJhg6ozXqGUvLk5bKq-iV6s7gj-2dFp0Gu9Qs_5DH-MXWf8RW2djLxdl8HOBIr-NQ8Otcfq7KW94k2GoNMJEWQpytG_J8OsyNFMnwjram1VR6HTXKM4fvCs7mKPdfFhAe0Xl0F2E5suJzhe_0bEYeaff8p0LG9dMtg8xkOHxawRnJD7z2ZghTghlWb7SSNWj-WwbJP4Ratw4hi2-xJYPuPfm1uUx3FbCRMJTs2aqxsM2cVxQ0ai2Y1qNtX4eB__kktJ3-UZw2lVFkIQ3keKEqhII2MtOuV_5suwup8rhgCah2IrsnluO22SN5yYyH7x32_ReSqcMu8TXsuEAgzd6pcjC2tOL7GZNRgQvEaa1JwABYRDnEmHZN8DaPFfYCOl73unUTo7EvvQYQJ4NRERyjw_9nv5U51-BpAVjAlWbLeANqzjz_mTtnsgtgAwupcbbL088UW8H8zO9D81_37OT7kVGn4JXkdmLG5vur9W4KCQt45HCwwlKR_5fUYUJ1lTij5pNrsIzKdFcJAp8_6YpSv6Ds4DxPEczlbqMET8oKEzqX2V5jf5D49CUg=w1160-h870-no (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Un2QL7ASXhMaCGcZVE64p0FFEE1c-o8hFjDwxnkEBjOrna0N8UVb13fjIjJhg6ozXqGUvLk5bKq-iV6s7gj-2dFp0Gu9Qs_5DH-MXWf8RW2djLxdl8HOBIr-NQ8Otcfq7KW94k2GoNMJEWQpytG_J8OsyNFMnwjram1VR6HTXKM4fvCs7mKPdfFhAe0Xl0F2E5suJzhe_0bEYeaff8p0LG9dMtg8xkOHxawRnJD7z2ZghTghlWb7SSNWj-WwbJP4Ratw4hi2-xJYPuPfm1uUx3FbCRMJTs2aqxsM2cVxQ0ai2Y1qNtX4eB__kktJ3-UZw2lVFkIQ3keKEqhII2MtOuV_5suwup8rhgCah2IrsnluO22SN5yYyH7x32_ReSqcMu8TXsuEAgzd6pcjC2tOL7GZNRgQvEaa1JwABYRDnEmHZN8DaPFfYCOl73unUTo7EvvQYQJ4NRERyjw_9nv5U51-BpAVjAlWbLeANqzjz_mTtnsgtgAwupcbbL088UW8H8zO9D81_37OT7kVGn4JXkdmLG5vur9W4KCQt45HCwwlKR_5fUYUJ1lTij5pNrsIzKdFcJAp8_6YpSv6Ds4DxPEczlbqMET8oKEzqX2V5jf5D49CUg=w1160-h870-no)
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Yeah so that didn't work :-\ Anyway, here's where I'm at so far.
Picked it up Friday and cleaned it up. Remarkable what a difference a little SG and WD can do.
Still have a lot of rust on the rims and pitting pretty much everywhere. The valve covers are peeling badly. Is that clear coat coming off?
Cleaned the gas tank out well. Don't know how to tell if it's 17 or 19L, though.
Drained the oil. Looked clean.
Pulled the plugs. put some MMO in each hole.
Interesting Oil filter cover to show you when I get the picture thing figured out?
The engine has a broken fin. My Father-in-law says he has the piece somewhere. The rest is cleaning up and I'm sure the aluminum can shine up with some work. The fins and valve covers is a big decision point.
The frame has a lot of rust spots and I don't know if I can do anything with those. Another decision point.
The body paint is a funny one. A lot of people look at it and just love the age on it and think it's cool. I am considering getting them repaired and painted to original and doing the best I can to shine up the rest of the bike as is. Maybe one day in the future I would do the engine and the frame at the same time. Still a lot to be discovered first.
Seat is flattened and a piece and has a small tear in the coping. Looks very repairable. The guy who delivered the bike was jazzed up about it. He runs a local club (http://vintagebikeoc.com (http://vintagebikeoc.com)). He had a bunch of local shops that could do work and said there is a seat guy in Santa Ana that could refurbish. Great to start networking.
Headlight missing but I have the two housing pieces that have cleaned up well. I guess I need a new sealed headlight. What/who do you guys recommend for parts?
More to come later with pics.
Thanks,
Mike
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nice you may still have the broken fin !
Yamiya is who i have ordered from in the past, they're really the only major source for parts, some may disagree with me on that and their prices can be higher than i like to pay. David Silver Spares in UK and CMS in Netherlands have less of a selection and a certain amount of their stuff comes from Japan. Western Hills Honda in Ohio still, perhaps.
then there's ebay for items no one is producing. and there are ebay USA sellers who buy the merchandise form Japan, turn around and sell it on ebay. when it comes to new or reproduced parts seen on ebay, i price out parts at other sources than ebay whenever possible, imo, ebay peddlers are blood-letters. do not be stung by ebay peddler "labeetlekid,' (formerly "yankee clipper" or some such name) he's had a number of different names, has sold altered frames and often has trashy looking parts. he's also good at listing an item, selling it, then saying he does not have it. another asinine peddler is "digidave," he lists parts at 10 and even 20 times more than the same parts can be purchased off ebay. i think some guys have communicated with "digidave" and found him to sell his items listed on ebay for reasonable prices. maybe dave's trying to avoid ebay fees, so he grossly overprices his items and expects people to make an offer..... 15 years ago there were less than 100 "sandcast" items listed on ebay. no it's around 1600 items. Many with CB750 parts to sell on ebay and who's read out forum, has become sandcast experts and list the magic word "sandcast" in their auction header.
years back finding a nice original seats were the only option we had, so nice seats were going for $750 - $1250. Yamiya makes gorgeous red foam copies, any seat upholsterer would be challenged to duplicate and the prices on repro seats has dropped over the years, now that they are so commonly available. if you can save your original cover, that's nice.
the amount of patina one can live with is a personal call. bikes pre-WWII, imho, nearly any amount of patina is acceptable. but on these more modern bikes where there's alot more aluminum, chrome and plastic, especially the Japanese bikes, unless the patina can at least somewhat respond to conservation efforts, i personally can't stand patina, unless it is uniform and "matching" throughout the entire motorcycle. when the black paint is affected, there's only so much an ink pen can do before tossing in the towel.
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Hi Gutz , welcome aboard fella, i am envious that so many people are finding these real early bikes , it amazes me how many are left, all i can say is take note of all the great advise and enjoy whatever you do with it
pete
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'll post some pics of the progress so far.
I took delivery and got to cleaning.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b496/Gutz430/CB/IMG_0163_zpseil9riqn.jpg)
Bad pealing on the Valve cover, yuck! And Steve, is this the long choke arm you were asking about? and the Carb covers?
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b496/Gutz430/CB/IMG_0178_zpsomy2bifw.jpg)
Here's the oil line
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b496/Gutz430/CB/IMG_0174_zps8pm4qjzo.jpg)
Here's a pic of the Oil Filter Cover. This is interesting because he had the fins welded on back in the day to help cool the oil. He didn't even know they started making them like that in later model years. Old time ingenuity. I'll leave it that way. The headlight trim cleaned up nicely.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b496/Gutz430/CB/IMG_0173_zpskeizh7gc.jpg)
This is after cleaning and chrome polish. Anybody think I can get rid of that pitting? Also, any special care in getting those stickers off?
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b496/Gutz430/CB/IMG_0181_zpsfn4ydipy.jpg)
I did the gas tank last weekend here are the before and after. Vinegar method.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b496/Gutz430/CB/IMG_4816_zpsf3wugj1i.jpg)
After
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b496/Gutz430/CB/IMG_0082_zpshr9lhmrp.jpg)
Not sure how to tell if this is a 17 or 19L
(https://goo.gl/photos/YjjDhsQq5WuzfPEx7)
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yes, long choke arm, a lovely desirable part.
2 hole airbox with no cracks, another rare part.
that think lip alternator cover, practically impossible to find if the bike does not come with one, i had to buy a motorcycle to get a thin lip cover.
fins on that smooth oil cover are a buzz kill. unmolested, rarely available and spendy when one shows up, usually $500 - $600 spendy. if it were mine, i'd do everything i could to bring that cover back to original appearance, but before you do, check inside to make sure there is not crack from over-tightening around circumference of bolt hole.
flip the tank over and post a picture or else go in to the website and you see lots of pics what a 19 L looks like on underside.
post a pic of the speedo and tach drives where the ferrules attach to drive.
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Here's a couple more.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b496/Gutz430/CB/IMG_0077_zpst2o6yjrc.jpg)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b496/Gutz430/CB/IMG_0078_zpsqswdcq4x.jpg)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b496/Gutz430/CB/570DA190-1D0E-47FD-A331-67A0B6426958_zpsxz9i25gr.jpg)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b496/Gutz430/CB/214F8CBD-F6A6-4925-995A-BD0D2EA87039_zpsajbwhorr.jpg)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b496/Gutz430/CB/C0502A66-1601-49A4-942E-AF473C6843D7_zpsr1pwurld.jpg)
I have the original grip but it has some glue on it. I'm curious about the controls. This side is brownish and I have the accompanying blinker control. Take a look.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b496/Gutz430/CB/5DE868CE-505E-4021-A7CF-216E4745C92E_zpsf81380tm.jpg)
There is a black one installed and an extra brown one we found. Was the black original?
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b496/Gutz430/CB/881F3B9D-B313-4E40-8A6D-9E9DB836EF89_zpszxm4hfey.jpg)
How can I tell if this chain is still good? He replace the original with a "SuperChain".
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b496/Gutz430/CB/IMG_0179_zpsdtq9jkwp.jpg)
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That's a great basis. As far as I can see very original. There are a lot of hard to find genuine early sandcast parts.
You will have to make a decision: keeping it as it is with all the patina and just bring her back to the road or going the long way with a full restoration. That's what I do actually.
Before starting I would recommend to read through the restoration threads to get an idea.
That "brown" one is just faded. Lovely patina....
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Got the carbs off and took a quick look. Seem pretty darn clean for sitting for 23 yrs. That being said, the other 3 bowls are seriously stuck on there! I tapped with a rubber mallet but I didn't have time to get any further and don't want to rush it. Any tips for getting those off and recommendations for cleaning? I was planning on a short simple green bath followed by carb cleaner.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b496/Gutz430/CB/9BC3229E-E711-4023-B59B-CF05F6408875_zpsbumc4wdb.jpg)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b496/Gutz430/CB/05239D4C-9201-4BF3-BA38-0CBE596DA38A_zpshl14sxcy.jpg)
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use a heat gun or a hair dryer to warm up the bowls, if you cannot then remove them with your hand, heat the bowl again and gently tap the 3 walls of the bowl with a small dead blow mallet or a rubber covered handle of a large screwdriver. they will come off, one at at time. the same can be accomplished on stuck slides. the 1', 2' and 3' fuel passageways will all need to be cleaned, ultrasonic is the best way to get them clear, then use wd40 and compressed air to test passageway patency. be sure to remove the needle jet, pn 16133-300-004 from the carb body. make sure all the orifices of 16139-300-004 and 99124-300-0400 are perfectly clear. check the float needle for a wear ring. i replace the worn needles with a Viton tip needle available from K&L supply. i clean the float needle seat seat using a dremel tool and an industrial Q tip dipped in Simichrome, then after i have assembled rebuilt carb rack, i bench test the carbs for fuel leakage past the float needle valves. if the float valves leak and the passageways and orifices are not clear, the carbs will not ever carburate correctly.
your bike so far has all the early parts one would expect to see on an 7xx vin. if you search the forum using key words you can learn much about the distinctions seen on parts specific to your machine. in the past month there was an excellent thread on the 3 tank types and date codes one can expect to see on the tank as well as there are also other threads on dates codes seen on other parts.
Follow Uli's advice to restore or not to restore. i would say the majority of us are all about restoring. my suggestion to you, having an earlier production vin, is make 7xx a long term restoration project. 7xx is a solid basis for restoration.
if you don't have a 1969 factory parts book, buy a copy off ebay or perhaps you can download a copy of sohc4.net forum.
other handy tools are a #2 and #3 Vessel Megadora JIS screwdrivers, you can buy them on ebay for around $12 apiece.
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Hey! Did anyone spot the pointer on the kill switch with no "on" "off" "on". That's 3 switches I've now seen on bikes in this Frame # range and being saying it for a number of years. For me this does ice the cake so I'm going to claim this as another distinction on Sandcast bikes. Yee Har. 🤓
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Hey! Did anyone spot the pointer on the kill switch with no "on" "off" "on". That's 3 switches I've now seen on bikes in this Frame # range and being saying it for a number of years. For me this does ice the cake so I'm going to claim this as another distinction on Sandcast bikes. Yee Har. 🤓
KP, what vin range do you suggest for a pointer type switch with no on-off-on markings and i will update the 88 distinctions thread. GREAT CALL !
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The ranges are 1 bike in the 8xx range, another in the 6xx and this bike being 778. I've also seen 2 switches sold on eBay over the years. I know this cos I bought one and I think it was Alan Landry who bought the other. I have used the range 650 to 850 as the guide but could just as easily be 500 to 900. I did ask all members to let us know their switch type within range 500 to 1000 but don't recall any response. Nevertheless, I'm chuffed to see the switch on Gutz's 778.
Whatever you do Gutz, keep this bike original. Either restored or lightly rejuvenated, this bike has a ship load of originality and its unique parts inventory, and as others have said,should be retained. Thin lip cover, long choke arm, cast bevel drive instrument drives, small nut tachometer and speedo cables, double wrinkle tank, looks to be original early petcock, 2 hole airbox, early RH switch. Etc etc are just some of the unique parts to this bike.
A photo of the underside of both LH switches would be good, thickness of mirror stems, rear top of brake arm, bottom shot of headstock, under seat, stamped codes on disc, Innside of master cylinder, width of front horn on top triple clamp, is the hole where the 2 instrument rings join together ( where these rings join the front horn of the triple clamp).
Maybe others can add to this list
All very interesting.
KP
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Great early bike.
Carbs are long choke lever type, but carb vent tubes are 90° angled type rather than straight exit (good picture can be found within Technical/Restoration). Both my long choke lever carb sets have straight exit vent tubes. Another subtle variant within carb types? What is highest known VIN for long choke lever carb types I wonder?
Chris R.
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Great early bike.
Carbs are long choke lever type, but carb vent tubes are 90° angled type rather than straight exit (good picture can be found within Technical/Restoration). Both my long choke lever carb sets have straight exit vent tubes. Another subtle variant within carb types? What is highest known VIN for long choke lever carb types I wonder?
Chris R.
Great observation on the 90' vents, Chris ! I suspected, but did not know about 90' vents with long arm. I do believe you are on to something.
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778 LIVES!!!!!!
Had a great weekend with more than a few hours to finish the carbs and, yes, she started right up! So oil change, new plugs, new air filter and my first ever carb cleaning and this baby started right up. After a minute of exhaust puke there wasn't even any smoke. Only issue is a very high idle. I tried to adjust down but got to the bottom of the cable adjustment and still didn't work. Ran out of time. I'm just stoked that she runs and that clears the path forward.
On another note, I'm happy this bike can contribute to the collective knowledge on the early CB's. Here are some pics that KP asked for. If there is anything else you guys want to see let me know (in layman's terms) what you want to see and I'll snap a pic.
Here are the clean carbs. I didn't replace anything at this point, just cleaned it up to get running.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b496/Gutz430/CB/4327E36E-5788-45EA-9A9C-8C69E378E2BF_zps8xijt3su.jpg)
Gotta say, these things are pretty.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b496/Gutz430/CB/795FAB1E-B70E-472D-9385-D21028D34D8F_zpstizrwozo.jpg)
Post start. Yes haw!
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b496/Gutz430/CB/4C790D0D-665D-4A34-BDEB-BB4182C65CB0_zpso4ea2vrd.jpg)
Here are some Pics KP asked for. Let me know if I got what you needed. Not sure about some of them. Couldn't find stamping on the disc, for example.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b496/Gutz430/CB/B7E0EA07-3F8D-4365-89EF-7DB82EFF1286_zpsoq26ut0s.jpg)
Don't have the bottom half of the "brown" LH control. Probably why it got replaced.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b496/Gutz430/CB/E33D0B3C-075D-4EE0-8B17-2AA2A4DFB1A6_zpsnthnhm44.jpg)
Brakes are locked up big time. Got the top off.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b496/Gutz430/CB/B7E0EA07-3F8D-4365-89EF-7DB82EFF1286_zpsoq26ut0s.jpg)
Is this what you wanted to see? Top of rear brake lever?
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b496/Gutz430/CB/5F409113-8D98-42A0-8BD0-0C00C5EE4D16_zps0fnyeka3.jpg)
If you wanted to know the distance between the instruments, I would say about 3/4".
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b496/Gutz430/CB/1701F949-C393-436E-AC86-26BBD7154F12_zps6t4nr876.jpg)
Need your suggestions on this seat. First off, it only has horizontal seams. I always see horizontal and vertical, it seems. I was referred to a shop that does custom seats and restorations (Danny Gray). I sent these pics and they said $400-$500 to replace vinyl but requested pictures of what it should look like. Not exactly confidence inspiring. Do you guys think this seat is restorable? Do I need new vinyl or just foam and vinyl restoration. Is that a reasonable price?
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b496/Gutz430/CB/792D1033-2990-471A-8266-FE20BA7AF202_zpsaq2gkzab.jpg)
This is the only tear, but looks totally fixable.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b496/Gutz430/CB/83FDF35B-D6A5-4298-9D93-9829F30E9788_zpsxax0rptz.jpg)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b496/Gutz430/CB/E0BE5E34-AF38-46C0-BCA1-10C6C7B4F314_zpsv2w1tb2o.jpg)
Thanks for all you replies and help!
Gutz
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the upper triple clamp, you have to measure the distance of the narrowest point of the tongue, the distance is recorded in "distinctions," i can't remember the distance between early narrow and later wide.
looks like the m.cyl reservoir has a leveling ring.... ?
i would suggest buying a red foam and seat cover from Yamiya. i believe Yamiya sells the stainless trim, belt, screws and clasps. i think they corrected the clasps and screws, but someone else probably knows better.
Gorgeous carbs !
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There were 2 switches in the earlier photos so a photo of the underside of the very faded switch would be appreciated
The master cylinder isn't an original unit for this bike. Is there another master cylinder
The area of the triple clamp to measure is the front horn where the 2 rings connect Also a photo of the reasons NGOs with screw removed please
The brake pedal is the very early type with the casting flash. Nice.
Don't know about your idle issue Mr Swannie should be able to advise
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Don't know about your idle issue Mr Swannie should be able to advise
1. faulty cable action, not smooth slide action or air leaks cause the inability to adjust carburation to idle speeds.
2. with your cables disconnected from all 4 carbs, do slides all close evenly and completely ?
3. in closed position, are all 4 slides at the same height ? (i use a small drill to set all 4 slides in same position.)
4. with all 4 cables attached and the single cable attached to throttle twist grip, do all 4 slides close quickly and uniformly when hand removed from the twist grip in wide open position? (use a mirror to visualize the slide positions or use the same drill you set the slide positions with when you assembled carbs.)
5. air leak at manifold? when engine running, spray soapy water on rubber manifolds, one manifold at a time. or use brake cleaner. if there is an air leak, when using this "spray test," engine rpm will temporarily slow.
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5. .......raise.
With brake cleaner.
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"Only issue is a very high idle. I tried to adjust down but got to the bottom of the cable adjustment and still didn't work".
I do wonder if the problem is that the throttle stops screws on the carb bodies are too far in, causing the slides to be too high at idle - Steve's suggestion number 2 would confirm or otherwise this. This would also fit with what you have said about cable adjustment not allowing the correct idle.
Idle speed is controlled by the throttle stop screws (there MUST be freeplay in the cables at idle), individual cable adjusters are used to set equal lift of the slides due to throttle twist.
#778 is quite a find - enjoy, whatever you decide to do with it.
Chris R.
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Excellent additional comment by Chris. reading what Chris wrote, the factory workshop manual has a excellent instructions for the carb settings and cable adjustment/setup procedure. if you have a factory or Clymer's, etc manual or you know the step by step procedure for carb/cable setup, you are otherwise swinging your arms in the dark.
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No posts in a while due to some work trips but I really want to thank you all for you posts and help. A wealth of information on this board.
I decided I had to tap out, know my limits and found a good shop to take it into. I can figure stuff out pretty well but this might have taken a while and my wife and kids may have filed a missing persons report.
My mechanic knows this bike well and did the points, timing, valves and finished my work on the carbs. She purrs nicely now. Here's my plan of attack moving forward. Tell me what you think of the following:
My strategy is to let the mechanic finish the process of making it safe and road-worthy so I can ride it for a while. The next three major cosmetics projects I think I can do in pieces.
1. Paint: Is it crazy to just do this alone and have new paint and everything else patina?
2. Chrome: I may be okay with the patina on the chrome for a while, but it seems like it's not a lot of work to do the chrome as it's own project at it's own time.
3. Frame and Engine: I view painting the frame and the engine as one concurrent project.
Tell me if I this strategy is reasonable or if I'm just being penny-wise and pound foolish. Don't hold back!
Some other questions
I ordered Yamaya seat cover and foam. Do they come with instructions or is the process pretty straight forward?
What kind of tires do you guys recommend for riding?
The master cylinder is really frozen and my guy thinks it's beyond repair. KP said it doesn't look original. Is this bike supposed to have a black one with a black or silver cap? Also, should I just get new hoses as well? Any recommendations on parts. What are ya'lls thoughts on vintagecb750.com and other sites? Yamiya is crazy pricey.
As always thanks for your input.
Mike
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Hey Gutz
I just downloaded the photo of that master cylinder and played around with the image PLEASE NOTE This master cylinder may in fact be an early one without the level line The photo looks like it has a level line but I now believe this is just a stain line
The later cylinder has a level line which is cut into the alloy You cannot miss this line as it is about 1mm deep on the inner surface of the cylinder
Maybe another picture can be taken so we can verify for sure Whatever you do don't throw this MC away
Also can you take a photo of the underside of the second LH switch you previously photographed The one I refer to is the very faded switch
KP
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I didn't see where you replaced the drive chain. I would do that in any case before riding it. And if you have to replace anything, keep every original part no matter how junk it might seem.
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My strategy is to let the mechanic finish the process of making it safe and road-worthy so I can ride it for a while. The next three major cosmetics projects I think I can do in pieces.
1. Paint: Is it crazy to just do this alone and have new paint and everything else patina?
2. Chrome: I may be okay with the patina on the chrome for a while, but it seems like it's not a lot of work to do the chrome as it's own project at it's own time.
3. Frame and Engine: I view painting the frame and the engine as one concurrent project.
BTW: rust is not patina.
ad 1.) yes, don't do that. Once painted you will have to restore everything. So keep it as it is, clean the inside or look for a set in candy red or bluegreen with patina
ad 2.) Don't try to get rid of the rust spots mechanically. That will give more scratches. At first step I would use rust remover. Vinegar or other stuff. I use "Rostio" (don't know if you get it over the pot)
In the long run, you will have to have it de-chromed, grinded and then newly chromed. Not cheap but the only way for parts that are hard to find, especially front and back fender, rear wheel.
ad 3.) certainly. Then your bike is in pieces. And you will clean or replace any piece. But beware: the sandcast world still discussing if engines were ever painted when new or not.