Honda CB750 Sandcast
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Joe K on June 17, 2017, 09:15:25 pm
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Hello All,
Now that some of you fortunate ones have owned Lotus Roots for awhile (and Yamiya is selling them at a much more reasonable cost making them more accessible for more - $2250 US + shipping) how do you compare them to HM300's? In Yamiya's advertisement for the Lotus Roots they state that they are *For racing purpose only and not for highway use*.
LOTUS ROOTS:
1. Do those that own them agree that they are for racing only?
2. How does the sound compare? Louder, deeper, better sound?
3. Do they provide better performance with less exhaust restriction?
4. Would you recommend purchasing them over the HM300's?
5. Are they worth the extra cost over the HM300?
6. Please add to this list if I am missing anything.
Thank you for your input.
Joe K.
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I own two sets of actual lotus roots pipes (not reproductions), two sets of Yamiya no-number pipes and a set of original HM300s. My thoughts:
1. Yamiya is saying that probably for legal reasons. These pipes were never used for racing.
2. Almost impossible to notice a difference in sound between the three.
3. No. There may be a very small difference in restriction, but the difference in performance can't be detected. Most people aren't pushing their sandcasts to the limits of performance anyway :)
4. There is no bikes that this would apply to. In other words, lotus roots pipes are only accurate for early sandcasts. HM300 exhausts didn't start until midway through the K0 diecasts. I suspect most people here would advise you to buy the pipes are are accurate for your bike.
5. Yes, if you have a very early sandcast. For example, I have original lotus roots pipes on #410 and #863. Sandcast #1378 has no-number pipes as does diecast #16xxx. My K1 has HM300s.
Hope this helps! What bike is this for?
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why yamiya states LR's are racing only, i suspect they feel will limit their risk for liability because the baffles would be removed for "racing" on a closed circuit track.
it is noteworthy, at the beginning of 2006, NO ONE but Honda was producing new oem exhaust (incorrect HM300's) for the sandcast CB750 until Yamiya made available the first LR's in September, 2006.
Equally noteworthy, Yamiya did NOT produce "No.no's" exhaust until at least one year AFTER their LR's were made available. Perhaps Yamiya's not putting the "racing disclaimer" on their "No.no's" is an oversight.....?
the reason Yamiya made a legal disclaimer is for the fact the tip of the 6 mm hex screw which holds the baffle in the muffler is not welded to the inside of the muffler, as per factory original. Yamiya's saying the LR is for racing only is an attempt to limit their liability in the event someone used a LR on a public highway, the screw came loose and the baffle fell out on the highway and caused damage or injury to another vehicle and/or operator of the vehicle.
i know this because at the time Yamiya was getting ready to make LR's available in 2006, they did not have anyone at their business who could comprehend English well enough to write a disclaimer. They contacted me via email and asked me to write a disclaimer for them, which i did. Yamiya's disclaimer was included with the LR's i purchased in 2006 and looked vaguely similar to the disclaimer i wrote for them. (2006 disclaimer attached.)
imo, the only reason to put LR's on vin's 1-4148 is because it is the correct exhaust for this vin range, as per factory parts books.
"No.no's" exhaust were fitted vins 4150-onward.
the HM300 exhaust is not correct for any 1-7414 vin sandcast, the HM300 didn't appear until early 1970. the last sandcast came off assembly line early to mid September 1969.
i've never heard the exhaust note of LR's. i have been told the sound of LR's v.s. "No.no's" exhaust with baffles in place is the same. i have been told the LR's with baffles removed produces a deeper and richer exhaust note.
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Thank you, Ujeni & Steve for all that great information you provided. I messed up. I should have written in the title "Lotus Roots vs. No No. Exhausts. My engine vin is 4646 so the correct exhaust for for my bike would be No No. Exhaust.
Joe K.
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Are there any differences between No No. (Number) Exhaust & HM300's? Or are they the same it's just that the HM300's are stamped "HM300"? Do they have the same baffles diffusers?
Joe K.
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Hi Steve,
I really hope you didn't write the part in the disclaimer that reads "fastened only at once point with a single bolt." :D
Joe K.
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Are there any differences between No No. (Number) Exhaust & HM300's? Or are they the same it's just that the HM300's are stamped "HM300"? Do they have the same baffles diffusers?
Joe K.
if i remember correctly, no.no are same as the the very early HM300's including baffles with exception to the stamped letters and numbers.
i used to know the differences, but if i recall correctly, there's at least 2 versions of HM300's that came from the factory between 1970 and 1971. i remember the HM300's on an early vin K1 i had, were different from a later K1 i had. if i recall correctly, the early HM300's didn't have relief on the #3 pipe to clear rear brake pedal. (these versions do not include Honda oem replacement parts produced post-1971.)
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Hi Steve,
I really hope you didn't write the part in the disclaimer that reads "fastened only at once point with a single bolt." :D
Joe K.
Ha !
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I recently purchased another set of LRs from Yamiya, here is a photo of the current disclaimer. There are still misspellings, and I was surprised they made a reference to Honda. I have communicated with them many times trying to acquire another set of LR, since the earlier runs from 2010, and finally, glad they were made available, has been a long wait.
DW
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Personally, I do not think this warning is related to the noise and the screws of the diffuseurs that are not welded, because on the HM300 it is not welded either... These exhausts were stopped because of the sparks that came the diffuseurs and which could cause fires, and our friend Ujeni had already explained it on the forum... Now these exhausts are no longer homologated and therefore completely prohibited on public roads. This warning before the purchase "Reserved to the competition" aims at releasing Yamiya of all responsibilities in case of use on the road.
Just my opinion...;)
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I agree Gerard, I also think the reason the LR designed were changed was due to US state laws for spark arrestors and concerns with fires, since they were less restricted with only the single supports in them that hold the baffles.
DW
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Someone just posted on YouTube short videos of their Lotus Root pipes with and without the baffles. Very nice!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYSNQk0pN-Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYSNQk0pN-Y)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFyDjlJu00Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFyDjlJu00Q)
Joe K.
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Beautiful discovery Joe... Very frankly I expected something else compared to the HM300...:-\
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I prefer the exhaust sound with the baffles fitted
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I agree KP, I like the sound of LRs better with baffles. In person, I still think the LRs have a slightly deeper sound when compared to H300s. Going down the road the LRs just sound different, especially during acceleration.
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I should have said, acceleration with a load.