Honda CB750 Sandcast
K0 Korner => Everything K0 => Topic started by: CB75014 on November 01, 2017, 08:46:54 am
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Hi,
I saw the ad below on the Bonhams site (the privately owned British auction house) :
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/24131/lot/296/ (https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/24131/lot/296/)
Mains specifications :
1971 Honda CB750 K0
Frame no. CB750-1044853
Engine no. CB750E-1044917
As you can see it's specified : "One of only 36 imported to UK"
For me, these numbers come from a K1. I sent a email to Bonhams, here is their answer :
"Hi Jean,
I checked the numbers with our Honda specialist and the K0 numbers run from 1044 and the K1 start 1055 and that the K1 model only appeared I believe in 1971 as the K0 was only a transitional model.
Kind regards,
Andy
Andy Barrett
Motorcycle Administrator
Collectors’ Motorcycles"
What do you think about this bike ?
Jean-Jacques
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My notes show that the K1 started at 1044650. So I would agree that it's (barely) a K1. Back in the day the K0 designation didn't exist. First model was the CB750 (which included sandcasts and early diecasts), then the CB750K1. So everything between sandcasts and K1's I guess could be considered transitional and what I think a lot of people call the K0.
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Ignoring the engine and frame numbers for a moment, this bike has the single-cut front fender (K0 only), the 85k redline (k0 only).
Then I see that it has K1 or later carbs and an even later rear fender.
Plus is is very rough.
I would avoid this bike. Too much incorrect and too much in bad condition. Just my opinion.
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There are a number of posts on this site which refer to these non US K0 bikes. They came equipped with the later carbs but retained the K0 gauges, covers etc.
The single cut front fender carried over to the K1 model up to at least the end of 1970. I can’t tell you the frame number when the non-cut fender was introduced as I plead little knowledge of anything past K0 :)
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Hi all, this is my 1st post. Hopefully nothing too controversial.
From Pete Shoemark's book HONDA CB750 of 1983, (allowing many things have changed since then, and new information is broadly available, and reference terms change), he has a chapter that talks of the evolution of the CB750 thru to the K8.
Anyways, allowing that K0 has become the name used for the model following the Sandcast, the Bonhams bike may seem out of place. But back in the day K0 wasn't the model description, as I recall folks used to use the term pre K after the K1's arrived, again different time different terms (and K0 is simpler than pre K).
Back to the book, and allowing the 1st bikes including Sandcast are just referred to as CB750's, the book suggests the following and I quote;
" The KO was a transition model, generally similar to the CB750 and grouped within the latter's batch of engine and frame number span. The K0 variants will fall between Engine no CB750E 1044848 - 1045147, Frame No CB750 1044826 - 1044947. all other details, paint colours and plating are as given above (refers to CB750 in the book). Only 36 K0 machines were sold in the UK. In most respects, the K0 bore a very close resemblance to the CB750, but featured rocker arm and linkage type carburettor bank in place of the cable operated system. This later system was continued through the K series".
Using the Pete Shoemark book as a reference point, suggests the Bonhams bike is in fact a unique model of its own, whether (past or current) use of the term K0 is correct is another matter.
Cheers Pete (no connection to Mr Shoemark)
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Here’s a link to a discussion from 2011. Time flies
http://cb750sandcastonly.com/smf_forum/index.php/topic,482.0.html (http://cb750sandcastonly.com/smf_forum/index.php/topic,482.0.html)
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Hi,
Thanks for the piece of information.
I wrote 2 years ago to Honda Japan and Honda US, unfortunately they answer me that Honda did not save the production data of the period 68/78.
So Bonhams seems to be right and the machine is one among 36 UK CB.
I save the data.
Thks
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I did get to look at this bike in the auction room. It is indeed a genuine "K0", being a very late CB750 fitted with 750K 1 carburettors, with serial numbers within the ranges quoted in several publications for these bikes.
It has less than 7000 miles recorded, and has not been used on the road for 40 years, which likely explains its less than mint condition. That said, other than the exhaust, it appear to be as it left the factory (the single cut front fender is correct, having been fitted well into the run of K1 bikes; the rear fender, etc is correct UK specification fitment for both the CB750 and CB750K1). Quite rare to find such an un-molested (exhaust excepted) CB750 over here. The new owner will have paid somewhere over £8000 (including auction commission), so $10,000 or so.
Chris R.
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Hi Chris,
My english is not very good so I need man explanation. :-\
You wrote in your post "the single cut front fender is correct, having been fitted well into the run of K1 bikes".
A picture show a K1 or later front fender, do you call it single cut ?
Thks
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i believe this is the first genuine K0 i have seen.
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Hi Chris,
My english is not very good so I need man explanation. :-\
You wrote in your post "the single cut front fender is correct, having been fitted well into the run of K1 bikes".
A picture show a K1 or later front fender, do you call it single cut ?
Thks
The front edge of the fender has a lip.
The rear edge of the fender has no lip. This fender is known as "single cut."
The rear edge and front edge of front fenders on sandcast have no lip, they are called "double cut."
Later K1 front fenders had a lip on front and rear edges.
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i like the exhaust. well done. i wonder who produced them.
ps - i just read the well written bonham's description, the exhaust are made by Dunstall. Very nice.
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It was 25 GBP for a catalogue to gain access to that Bonhams auction when I attended the Stafford Classic bike show, so I never got to see the bike in the 'flesh' but it was described to me by Roger Etcell, who used to be high up at Honda UK and is now a restorer and Bonhams estimator, as being pretty much as ChrisR describes on here. I checked the Numbers in John Wyatt's book and it was indeed in the range of the 36 'interim' models. I also know of two more examples, which are owned by members on SOHC.co.uk . ...... TV presenter/journalist James May also owns a French one which he bought from his buddy David Silver.
James May's 'K0' bike was feature here :-
https://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/stock/classicbike_oct_2013_web.pdf (https://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/stock/classicbike_oct_2013_web.pdf)
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Hi,
The K2 presented in the article is not a... K2. Probably a K5 painted and made up as, more or less, a K2 :
- fork,
- gear change pattern,
- right-hand fuel tap,
- side panel badge,
- tank...
So...
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James May's 'K0' bike was feature here :-
https://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/stock/classicbike_oct_2013_web.pdf (https://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/stock/classicbike_oct_2013_web.pdf)
on reading the james may mag he does say that the frame number is before the k0 numbers and it does look to have the black kill switch as opposed to a red kill switch ,but saying that the mirrors are wrong so the switches might have been changed pity he did not confirm his frame number ;)