Honda CB750 Sandcast
General Category => Links to Auctions and Classifieds => Topic started by: kp on January 13, 2018, 02:11:41 am
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On eBay. Bulla the shite description. Other than being a very desirable bike it certainly is not "unrestored" and missing so much. The seller needs to supply more photographs and expand the description. Need to know the engine number
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Do you have a link? I can't seem to find it on eBay.
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Okay - I found the link.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Honda-CB/222793535549?hash=item33df87903d:g:PvkAAOSwuShaWP9D&vxp=mtr (https://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Honda-CB/222793535549?hash=item33df87903d:g:PvkAAOSwuShaWP9D&vxp=mtr)
Photo of the frame number sure would be nice. A close look at the engine number looks like 7xxx something.
Can't believe the bid is up to $36K without photos of the frame and engine numbers.
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It was enough to just ask... KP ;D :D ;) Engine number E-1000066
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Success Give that man a cigar
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Except for the exhausts, the "28" tops, the airbox and the side emblems, it seems to me complete...
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Hard to tell if it has a 19 liter tank, unless we see the bottom side. I would also love to see the right hand controls to see the pointerless kill switch. Lots of parts not correct for an "unrestored" bike. Great to see the engine Vin.
DW
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the tach drive box is diecast. the #1 exhaust is stamped HM300, has rot on the end, the #4 exhaust has relief for the brake pedal. chain guard is long. the exhaust clamps are not the early "fat" type. the master cylinder cap is not machined, much less the correct cast type. both instrument cables are the early short nut type. i am going with the tank being a 19 liter because of the narrow distance between the fuel tap lever and bottom edge of tank, appears same distance as my 232. judging by the damaged LH headlight ear, cracked headlight bucket, and other replaced incorrect partst, i would suggest the bike's been damaged, probably in some sort of accident or something fell on it. none the less, a lovely appropriately matching low 2 digit vin. gotta love that grey body horn. i quit bidding at $36.2K....... :o i would be surprised if it sells for less than $45k, probably $50k+ vins like 31/E66 do not grow on trees and there certainly are discriminating wealthy collectors patiently waiting in the background for a vin like this one. it seems the lowest vin i have ever seen for sale on ebay about 10 years ago was something like vin 122.....? KP, do you remember that auction? Gerard, i asked the seller for the Evin and any other pics, nary a word and now my feelings are hurt. :'(
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I also think that the tank is a 19 liters ...
Steve, I did not ask the seller Ebay because I already had these pictures for about 3 years in my computer ... They had been posted here ...
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auction ended. we'll see if it reappears, doubtful. i am guessing seller was made an offer he could not refuse, as well as avoid paying ebay fees.
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EDIT: In response to inquiries and new information not preciously known to me. I have answered all as completely as I could. This is my first time selling a motorcycle of this age and vintage and I have a lot to learn. I appreciate the kind encouragement and guidance from the sellers and bidders who have been so interested to learn more about this bike. PLEASE READ BEFORE BIDDING THESE EDITS ARE CORRECTIONS OR ADDITIONS TO THE ORIGINAL INFORMATION.
*Re: More Photos or better Quality - As per request I have added 12 new photos showing the condition of the pipes, areas of paint damage, Engine stamp, VIN Stamp, Fuel Tank, Front Sprocket (counter-shaft) and chain where it enters the engine. They show all her blemishes, including ones I previously was not aware of.
*Re: History and Condition - The VIN Number is CB7501000031- it is stamped into the frame. The Engine Number is 66, Frame number is 31. Based on research from Sandcastonlydotcom I speculate that the bike was built before 7/22/1969 (E71) and assembled and shipped to the USA for sale by November of 1969. No documents of the original sale exist. The bike was acquired in 1973 by the dealership after the owner brought it in for repairs. The owner of the bike chose to trade it in instead of having it repaired. It spent from the summer 1973 to the spring of 1997 in our dealership warehouse when it was moved to the show room floor. It has been there ever since. The bike has 4271 original miles on it.
The bike has had some repairs done to it - the Front fender was replaced and also the airbox cover with 1969/1970 CB750f Parts. At some point the alternator cover began leaking oil and JB weld was used to seal the leak. There are numerous scratches and the paint has suffered fading and chipping, especially in areas near joints such as the threads and welds where the mirrors and signal lights attach. The glass of both gauges have cracks. The fuel tank was stored empty but some rust has accumulated but the integrity of the tank is good.
*Re: Fuel Tank - Could not determine true volume but presumably 19L or 5.0 US Gallons as specified by online sources. The Tank lacks the throttle cable impressions that were added in later CB750 models.
As before the winner of the auction is responsible for transport and delivery, It is not possible for us to ship this bike.
Thank you for all your paitence and interest.
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has anyone heard if 31 actually sold and if so, for how much?
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The sale of 31 does not appear in the list of successful sales from the seller so I think no ... at least officially.
Maybe the sale is made outside of Ebay ?
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It would be very interesting to hear how much frame 31 sold for. The last time I saw it listed on eBay it was a little over 36,000, climbing fast and it had plenty of time remaining. If the bidding continued, you can only guess what it would have sold for, certainly way over $40,000.
It’s hard to believe that this bike had been displayed publicly for so long on a showroom floor, since 1997, over 20 years, and nobody educated the buyer a little bit about what his “orange” bike really was, especially since it appears he was in the motorcycle accessories business.
If in fact it didn’t sell, the only explanation that I can come up with is that there was a dispute over the true ownership of the bike. Why else would he shut the auction down without a sale with those bids in place?
I made a couple of inquiries to the seller about the bike, but like Steve’s experience, nary a word. How could the guy take an offer without first responding to all interested parties? Stranger things have happened I guess.
It would be nice to know what it did sell for if it did. We know there is a huge sliding scale of value for sandcast bikes but it would help everyone guess at a value for their own bike for curiosity sake, insurance valuation, establishing a number to sell their own bike if they ever cared to, or establishing a number to purchase one if another one like it ever came on the market. I can understand the new owner, if there is one, keeping the purchase price to themself, but if you know it sold and know what it sold for, let us know.
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I also sent the seller a couple of questions, and he responded three days later, in fact he did respond that he updated the photos and added 12 new photos. Also stated that he appreciated all feedback since he was inexperienced and this was his first time selling a vintage bike. The bike disappeared from eBay before I could view the new photos or bid.
Best,
Duane
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Open this link as it shows the updated photos that were added with the VIN and E VIN photos. Also shows fat exhaust flanges, 17 tooth drive sprocket, and thin lip alternator cover.controls.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Honda-CB/222793535549?hash=item33df87903d:g:PvkAAOSwuShaWP9D&vxp=mtr (https://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Honda-CB/222793535549?hash=item33df87903d:g:PvkAAOSwuShaWP9D&vxp=mtr)
Best,
DW
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It's very astonishing that this bike that was saying that 4271 original miles is equipped with a pinion of 17 while it should a 16... I think this guy is talking without knowing...
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The mileage is bulla the shite IMHO. Based on the additional photos i would say this bike has been stacked. The fork ears are not original paint and probably not original to the bike More like Honda replacement with the grey primer. Frame number has been painted over Not sure if this is just confined to the headstock but frame paint looks to be original albeit chipped. The taco is a Honda replacement as is the taco cable. The side cover badges and at least the LH sidecover are not original to this bike and I can only guess that the bike has also sustained damage to the sidecovers at some point. The exhaust spigots are original as I believe the exhaust clamps are. I cannot tell what gives withe speedo Fender is a ring in. The triple clamp bolts have had wrench work as they don't exhibit nice points to the edges. Finally, the LH clutch lever is not original. We already know about mirrors and such. These early bikes had hand made master cylinder caps and it's too bad this is not there. KP
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Two other observations on 31:
- no acorn hex head bolt on starter cover
- has long chain guard
DW
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If we look carefully ... the alternator lid has thin lip is cracked probably because of the fall and the little cloth stuck underneath means that it pisses the oil ... it's already a very bad point for the value of this bike ...
Whoever pays $36,000 will pay $10,000 too much in my opinion considering that is missing too many original elements ... :-\
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I've not seen a bike with acorn nuts on the starter cover. 28 doesn't have them They are show in the Honda manual but I'm not sure they ever put them into production. Others with low number frames may like to comment
If we look carefully ... the alternator lid has thin lip is cracked probably because of the fall and the little cloth stuck underneath means that it pisses the oil ... it's already a very bad point for the value of this bike ...
Whoever pays $36,000 will pay $10,000 too much in my opinion considering that is missing too many original elements ... :-\
If the missing parts are confined to a few items such as a double cut front guard, and some other items I would think more than $36k would be paid for such a low frame number. The alternator cover can be repaired as shown by Mark with his restoration. I think the bike overall was fairly original except those poorly executed repairs
In any case, "Beauty is in the eyer of the beerholder" ;D Cheers
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Now I'm curious, according to first addition parts list, this early Frame should have:
Starting Motor-E-11-92600-06008-0B-Bolt, Hex, Cap, 6x8-2. (Acorn Nut bolt).
Do they exist or are they a phantom part?
Does anyone own a low number bike with them or have others seen them on original bikes?
Thanks,
DW
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Now I'm curious, according to first addition parts list, this early Frame should have:
Starting Motor-E-11-92600-06008-0B-Bolt, Hex, Cap, 6x8-2. (Acorn Nut bolt).
Do they exist or are they a phantom part?
Does anyone own a low number bike with them or have others seen them on original bikes?
Thanks,
DW
I believe it is not probable these acorn hex head bolts were fitted on any production sandcast including single digit.
The 2014 Japanese book, "Honda Dream CB750 Four," pp. 27 and 30, shows early production vin 9/E8 to have flat hex head bolts attaching the starter cover. Other (numerous) magazines of the 1969-70 era picturing (LH) horn units show flat hex head bolts, i see NO acorn hex head bolts shown in any of these pictures, only flat hex head bolts.
I do not believe these acorn hex head bolts are "phantom," i.e., by dictionary definition, "a figment of the imagination."
Page 21, of the June, 1969, issue of "MOTOR CYCLIST" magazine very clearly reveals 2 acorn hex head bolts on a late pre-production vin which appears to possibly be 2113, because the bike featured is in front of the West Coast Honda distributor's office building in Alhambra, California.
Page 27, of the July 1969, "MOTOR CYCLIST" magazine again very clearly reveals the acorn hex head bolts on a late pre-production bike. (An interesting side note, the tester states he made a 900 mile round trip from LA to Phoenix on this bike.)
If you study the picture (below) taken at the January, 1969 Dealer's Convention at Las Vegas, of the the red late pre-production bike, you will note what appears to be the acorn hex head bolts.
Also of interesting note, page 37, January 1969 issue of "CYCLE WORLD," the starter cover on the early pre-production bike appears to be attached by what are very likely JIS head screws.
At the 40th Anniversary meet during 2009, Bob Jameson, while at the factory during March 1969, recalled watching different Japanese artists sketching parts that would be depicted in the Parts Manual. I would suggest the parts these artists were sketching were, at least some of these parts were pre-production parts, including the goofy little wing nut (pn 17910-300-010) seen on page 61, of the print date 69.4 Parts Manual. (Another interesting side note, Bob recalled a number of different artists coming through, all sketching the same parts. Bob said Honda was having different artists from different companies come through to as a way to determine who drew the best sketches that would be in the Parts Manual bid at the lowest price.)
I believe it is important to also know, as i discussed some years back, the sketches we see in these Parts Manuals (and various photos in Owner's and Service Manuals) are depictions of parts. When studying a Parts Manual, or any other manual for that matter, i believe it is important to know, and to remember, that a depiction is a representation of a part, not what the actual part may have actually looked like. An example of a depiction can be seen on page 66 of the 4.69 print date Parts Manual, the lower brake hose is depicted to have a long neck, when in fact we know these hoses had a short neck.
fwiw, Yamiya used to and may still sell these acorn hex head bolts, i have a pair on on E254 because i think they are cool, albeit until proven otherwise, are incorrect for early or late production vins.
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These two starter cover dome bolts had to be put on very very few machines, just like the unmarked point cover "Made in Japan" that you do not really want to accept... Both are in the design of the Parts list of 69.4...
So why would you want to mount these dome bolts who are cool that would have only existed in the design of a part list and not want to mount the covers of points without the "Made in Japan" of these same drawings?
These point covers are not they much more cool?
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Until which VIN were those pint covers used?
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Absolutely no idea, my friend... And have they been used? I think they were used but on very little bike.... But it's just my thought and nothing but my thought...
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These two starter cover dome bolts had to be put on very very few machines, just like the unmarked point cover "Made in Japan" that you do not really want to accept... Both are in the design of the Parts list of 69.4...
So why would you want to mount these dome bolts who are cool that would have only existed in the design of a part list and not want to mount the covers of points without the "Made in Japan" of these same drawings?
These point covers are not they much more cool?
Gerard, my fellow enthusiast. What i am asking for is evidence to support a supposition such acorn bolts fastening starter covers, and points covers without "Made in Japan" have been found on production machines.
Last night, when i was looking at pictures of the late pre-production machines, i did not think to look for the points cover that does not have "Made in Japan" stamped on it. So i looked this morning.
I found 2 pictures of the points cover on early pre-production machines. This points cover appears very different from covers on later machines, it appears to have no screws holding the cover to the crankcase, thereby suggesting the cover is an interference slip fit on to the crankcase...?
In the pictures in the various magazines i have, i found only one picture of the points cover on the late pre-production machine we recognize as vin 2113, it appears to not have "Made in Japan" stamped on the cover. This would support the cover in the picture you posted is for a late pre-production machine.
i have attached these pictures for us to study.
Gerard, i would agree with you, there is a possibility acorn hex head bolts may have been fitted for attaching starter covers on early production machines. And there is a possibility un-stamped points covers may have been fitted to early production machines. All i am asking for is evidence these parts are found on production machines. It would be great if owners of these early vins can share these details. To date, i am not aware of any evidence these parts were fitted to production machines.
An interesting side note, a few years ago Vic World, a person wrote Vic about a points cover like the one in the picture you posted. Vic offered to purchase the cover, but the person offered only a vague and pejorative reply to Vic, so Vic did not reply.
It seems it has been quite a while since we were posting about the points cover, Gerard. My memory of those conversations is unclear.
i looked for the thread, but could not find it. Perhaps it would be a good idea to revive our conversation about points cover types. It would be nice to show evidence of what we think we know. Gerard, the picture of that un-stamped cover is certainly interesting. Do you own the cover with no "Made in Japan" stamp? What information do you have about the origin of that interesting cover?
To answer your question about why no points cover without "Made in Japan" stamped on it is not on 232, is because I've not yet seen one for sale.
To answer your question why i would put acorn bolts on 232, because i can.
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An interesting side note, a few years ago Vic World, a person wrote Vic about a points cover like the one in the picture you posted. Vic offered to purchase the cover, but the person offered only a vague and pejorative reply to Vic, so Vic did not reply.
I will try to clarify the situation and answer your questions but the meaning of my words is not always good because of my bad English ... it's real
Here is the message sent to Mark for this unmarked lid "Made in Japan" :
My name is Gérard (FRANCE)
Could you confirm if the cover point is unmarked " Made in Japan " on your Sandcast 100097?
Believe that he was not " Made in Japan " on the first thousand Sandcasts approximately..??
Mark sent a message to Vic without informing me and it became a misunderstanding on the part of Vic who wanted to buy it from me. But I never talked about selling this cover to anyone...
My answer to Vic ;
Mark has given you my email address without informing me
I simply asked for this information has Mark to be sure of my information before opening a topic
" Point cover no stamped Made in Japan " Forum The Sandcast only...
Of course the pictures of these lids are mine because I have several point cover unmarked "Made in Japan" and if it was otherwise this discussion would have no interest here...
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Thanks you for your reply, Gerard. There is always more to learn, including myself! What information do you have about the origin of this interesting cover?
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Thanks you for your reply, Gerard. There is always more to learn, including myself! What information do you have about the origin of this interesting cover?
I do not understand what happened with the answers?
I do not know where these point covers come from ... I picked them up in an Honda dealership that was going to close in 1974...
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Thanks you for your reply, Gerard. There is always more to learn, including myself! What information do you have about the origin of this interesting cover?
Do you know if the covers were sold by a Honda dealer?
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I had bought them from the 1970s in a Honda dealership that was selling the parts of the stock as it was going to close...
Steve, Here is the link you are looking for :
http://cb750sandcastonly.com/smf_forum/index.php/topic,908.0.html (http://cb750sandcastonly.com/smf_forum/index.php/topic,908.0.html)
And this one, if you have not seen it :
http://cb750sandcastonly.com/smf_forum/index.php/topic,1972.msg14166.html#new (http://cb750sandcastonly.com/smf_forum/index.php/topic,1972.msg14166.html#new)
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28 has "MADE IN JAPAN" embossing.
31 also has "MADE IN JAPAN" embossing.
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33 has "MADE IN JAPAN" embossing.
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I had bought them from the 1970s in a Honda dealership that was selling the parts of the stock as it was going to close...
Steve, Here is the link you are looking for :
http://cb750sandcastonly.com/smf_forum/index.php/topic,908.0.html (http://cb750sandcastonly.com/smf_forum/index.php/topic,908.0.html)
And this one, if you have not seen it :
http://cb750sandcastonly.com/smf_forum/index.php/topic,1972.msg14166.html#new (http://cb750sandcastonly.com/smf_forum/index.php/topic,1972.msg14166.html#new)
Thank you Gerard for the link and your post. Did you, or will you post a picture of the inside of the cover? Good stuff!