Honda CB750 Sandcast
Beginning to End - Member Restorations => Bike 576/748 => Topic started by: Wayne on August 28, 2010, 10:35:09 am
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Well, time is drawing near where I will tear down 576/748 and begin my restoration project. I want to get the frame completed before fall so I thought I would start some documentation and photos before I take it apart and post them here. Any suggestions or input as I go would be much appreciated!
My objective is to restore this bike to the best of my ability while keeping the bike as original as possible, where possible. That in itself will be a challenge given parts that have been changed on the bike as a result of recalls, service, wear and tear and just plain old deterioration.
Having said that I have not worked in over 8 years and I haven't found money growing on trees in Canada yet. In order to finish this project I may have to go with non "correct" or a combination of "correct" and non "correct" parts to complete the project. My thinking is, with a good foundation I can always finish the bike and add desireable stuff like recessed ignition switches etc. at a later time. Perhaps I'll have to give up some of my rare parts (if I have any) to get money to help with the build. Time will tell.
This sandy is somewhat special to me as I used to ride it in my younger years back in the early eighty's. I worked with a friend at a Texaco station back then and we always had a few bikes around. Mine being British I think I did more pushing than riding! My friend was always generous enough to let me ride the old Honda. After reading about these "sandcast" CB750's on the SOOC Website I called him up. To make a long story short he still had the bike! We struck a deal and here I am. The bike only has about 1500 miles more than the last time I rode it in 1982! I'm hoping I can unveil his restored CB750 to him sometime in summer 2011.
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Here are pics of 576/748 as it arrived at my door. I had removed the gas tank and other items so as not to damage them in transit. Looks like the major items I am going to need are the front fender, seat and exhaust system. (regretably I can't commit to the LR exhaust at this time :( )
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/right_side_full.jpg)
This is how the old girl looked when I got it home. The tank and covers were removed to avoid any damage.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/bike_left_full.jpg)
Overall the sidecovers are in pretty decent shape. Only the lower tab is broken on the right, no cracks that I can see on either however the mounting tabs for the screens will have to be repaired and new screens installed.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/right_side_cover_outside_full.jpg)
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/right_side_cover_inside_full.jpg)
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/left_side_cover_outside_full.jpg)
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/left_sidecover_inside_full.jpg)
Wow! We have a rare early 2 hole air box without reliefs. I consider myself fortunate on this one. (This may be one of those items I could sell if I had to :( ) Looks were a bit deceiving though and when I stripped the upper half there were many horrors to behold. Glue, bodyfiller, fiberglass resin. You name it! I have undertaken fixing it up in my spare time while waiting to make room in my garage for the sandy. I'll post the repair outcome later on.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/air_box_full.jpg)
The fuel tank is in amazing shape! No sealer for this piece. It's like new inside! Gotta love the old flamed paint job!
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/gas_tank_full.jpg)
Note how the bottom only has the original Candy coat? There's no silver base and no clearcoat. Note: There is no paint where the petcock mounts. I can't imagine Honda masking off the petcock prior to painting the tank. Anyone ??? ??? ???
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/gas_tank_bottom.jpg)
A look down the fill spout shows a nice clean tank inside!
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/gas_tank_inside_full.jpg)
I dropped a webcam down inside for a little look. I cannot believe just how clean this tank is inside! Hard to believe it was bone dry empty sitting in a damp shed with only a tattered old tarp over it when I found her!
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/tank_inside_vid.jpg)
Alas a "short" Fuel Petcock. (Petrol to you folks across the pond ;) ) Again a rare piece it seems. Will it make sense for me to keep it being that I don't have a 19 L tank to go with it?
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/petcock_side_full.jpg)
Rear wheel is the rolled rear rim and is in nice shape!
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/rolled_rear_wheel.jpg)
Front is original with a dealer added dual disk brake. Should I restore and install the second unit. ???
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/front_disk_left_full.jpg)
The engine has good compression (can't remember the numbers now) with all cylinders within 5%. There is only 29 K documented miles on this bike. A bent fin on the head but other than that nothing too serious. There is no damage whatsoever to the cases from the chain
Nice "sandy" cases - number "748". I'm a lucky guy!
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/engine_number.jpg)
Showing the starter cover. Apparantly the fastener type has been of interest to a couple of members.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/starter_cover_full.jpg)
More engine details. Early Middle Type Oil Line??? - Webbed Fabric, smooth ferrule. Are mine just faded out to a silver colour?
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/clutch_cover_full.jpg)
The gauges are BAD and will require an overhaul top to bottom.
Frame is in great shape and I hope to be stripping it down and blasting it soon for paint! Finally!
So, the plan is to start disassembly as soon as I get my Harley into storage. (Early Nov. ???) I'll take more pictures as I go. If you want anything specific (number shots, certain fasteners or whatever) just ask.
Please do throw any advice you feel necessary my way. I have a lot to learn aboutthis old girl! Thanks.
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Just throwing together a list of some of the items I know I'm going to need. I'm sure this list will grow. I'll strike them off as I find (buy) them.
Front Fender
Seat
Exhaust (any hardware necessary to mount - my original is gone)
#8 Bolts for Exhaust Flanges
Center Stand (Found a beauty!)
Reproduction Air Box
Tires
Headlamp Pot
Headlamp - Hardware (I have nothing)
1 - Early Plain Blinker Lens (1 has a gouge in it) Have 3 perfect units.
New Side Cover Badges
Bolt and Spacer for Ignition Switch Bracket
Brake Hoses
Rear Shocks
Rear Winker Stays
2 - Battery Box Mount "8" Bolts
Oil Feed Line - Early Middle Type - Webbed Fabric - Smooth Ferrule
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Hi Wayne,
Well done on what you're doing with your bike. I'll follow your restoration as I will with Marks. Couple of things I could offer. Your VIN, although I'm not 100% sure, didn't come with a 19 litre tank. I'm still trying to piece together the details on these tanks buy asking members to respond So far so good but nothing with a 19 litre as high as your VIN has been identified to me. In relation to the petcock, these were used well into the teen VIN numbers as there are three different versions of the wrinkle tank. The 19 litre, the first series 17 litre that used the early petcock (your tank fits into this group) and the 3re series 17 litre. Study the thread on the 86 differences between sandcasts and this should get you some of the necessary info needed. Noted as 14 and 15
14. short neck fuel tap, 1-1937 (long neck, 1938-onward)
15. 19 litre fuel tank, 1-325)
That airbox is interesting in that we have a VIN number which indicates that the no-relief 2 hole airbox was used up to your VIN.
I'll also have a look through my collection of lenses as I may have a good early one I can let you have. Don't hold your breath though.
Anyway keep up the good work as your VIN is an early one which when completed will be a treasure. KP
PS Petrol is correct terminology, Gas is something my wife has ;D
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Thanks, KP for the great observations. The 87 distinctions thread is observations collected from fellow members and is always worth studying, i can't remember even half of what is on the list.
Wayne, Sudco sells perfect reproduction sidecover badges for a little over $100 a pair. If you want me to get you a set, let me know.
The 8mm bolts for the exh.clamps should be able to be sourced out of Japan, pretty sure KP would know the supplier.
The spokes and nipples, i use orignal, after having them new zinc plated.
I would not sell any parts off your bike, as far as the correct original parts on your bike appears unmolested.
I use a thin rubberized aerosol spray coating on the brake lines, it makes them black again. The brake line i see, is correct. Webbed fabric smooth ferrule.
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Thanks KP. Perhaps you could give the wife a little Gasex. ;)
Funny, I even remember how that signal lens got gouged. We used to park all of the bikes out front of the Texaco Station while we were using the bays. They would all come in each night. One morning a young gas jockey we had working for us was waiting at the station before we opened. He had some concerned look on his face. Apparently while pushing the bikes in he dropped the Honda! We checked the bike over finding only the gouged lens. Of course we gave him the gears for a while after that. The station sure was clean for a long long time though! ;)
3 clear shiny Plain Blinker Lenses, 1 gouged. :(
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/gouged_lens.jpg)
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Gold sidecover emblems, Sudco pn 900-378, page 414 of 2010 Sudco catalog - http://www.sudco.com/
I bought as pair last year for 2157 for $110, as i recall.
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Nice tip on the Sudco emblems. Yamiya has them for about $204 a pair.
Mark
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Still getting the garage ready but decided to tear a few items off the bike between trapping squirrels this AM. :)
Tach and speedo are not as bad as I thought but still need lots of work/$$. Some tools missing, bag is trashed and the headlamp bucket has a big piece out of it.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/gauges_headlamp.jpg)
The original owner actually painted the bike without removing any of the parts. There is overspray everywhere!
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/behind_headlamp_view.jpg)
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Hi Wayne
I see you got a lens. I haven't even looked in my piles of parts so saves me that little chore. At least he used red paint ;D
Cheers
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Yes KP, got 7 lens's from a guy just near me. Sent 4 off to Mark to help with his project. The overspray you see is more burgundy than red. Oh well, it will come off easily enough. Who knows, perhaps it helped to preserve some of the old parts. :)
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Pulled the clutch adjusting cover so I could remove the bars, cables etc. and here's what I found. The outside of the cover seemed fairly good, a slight imperfection but on the inside someone has spread some type of cement or epoxy. I have no idea why. I spoke with the last owner yesterday and he said he didn't do it. I guess on something over 40 years old you're likely to find just about anything!
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/clutch_cover~2.jpg)
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Did a little more tearing down tonight. To remove the exhaust I just decided to cut the old Jardine headers right off. Once the rear portion was removed I got down to getting the bolts out of the exhaust clamps. I thought these would be a nightmare but with a squirt of some liquid wrench 3 of the 4 loosend off with ease. #4 was rotten and twisted off. I should be able to get the last one out no problem. Regardless I slid the clamp off the pipe easily.
Rather than try to get the pipe off the flange at this point I decided to try the screws holding the flanges into the cylinder head. Again, some liquid wrench (gotta go with what's working for you!) and all but one screw came loose easily. I spun them out with my fingers. One screw seized (again in #4) so I soaked it and I'll give it a try tomorrow.
So, here's where we are so far. (keeping track of where everything goes is going to be a challenge but I'm carefully documenting everything and taking lots of pictures for myself.) I'm a bit tight for space with 2 projects but we'll just have to stay organized.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/pipes_off_full.jpg)
And a closeup:
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/pipes_off_eng_view.jpg)
My rear fender is in pretty decent shape except for some light rust and a couple of extra holes someone drilled in it. We'll weld those up, take out the imperfections and it will be as good as new.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/rear_fender_top.jpg)
I'm not sure what is on the underside of the fender. It could be old undercoat but it has a lot of dirt in it so I think it might be from an oiled road. They used to oil roads up here back in the day and I know where this bike lived and it was quite rural, so the chances are it was driven a lot on an oiled road. Regardless, it has preserved the underside of the fender beautifully! You can see it's almost prefect where I cleaned some off. Downside extra holes that need fixing. Upside, very well preserved underside. Oh, if anyone wants something from the sale flyers just let me know! ;)
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/rear_fender_bottom.jpg)
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Hi Mark,
That epoxy/coating is factory. It's on my also.
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Hi Mark,
That epoxy/coating is factory. It's on my also.
Interesting. Do we know what purpose it serves? It's like cement. Perhaps helps to prevent dings???
You mixed the 2 threads up. 576/748 is my build. Marks is 97. Thanks for the info.
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Yep it's factory. Even new ones have it but the why question is a good one. Does Chris R have any idea.
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I don't think it is epoxy - it dissolves too easily in solvent. I believe it is standard and for sound deadening, The covers are really thin and may tend to 'ring' due to vibration of the motor. I can't be sure of that though. The clutch cover on the CB750K7 (tougher clutch with Gold Wing 'B' plate fitted) is much thicker and does not have the 'cementy' coating, presumably because it's thickness prevents it from 'ringing'. Just my theory ChrisR may chip in and prove me wrong though ;D.
Whey hey - just noticed todays posts have taken away my 'Newbie' pesky status!! :)
Cheers
Ash
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I've seen it on the inside of the points covers too. My vote is it's epoxy and it's for sound deadening.
Mark
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The only reason I thought it may not be epoxy is that I removed the chrome palting from a clutch cover electrolytically and the coating just disintigrated. Could well be wrong though.
cheers
ash
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As suggested, seems likely it is for sound deadening. Inetrestingly, there are TWO types of chrome clutch cover - some are made of a thicker gauge steel than the others (like they weigh near twice as much as the "thinner" ones!), but have never been able to pin it down to thick early, thin late, or otherwise. Must look in my box of leftovers and see if only the thin ones have the inner coating).
Cheers - Chris R.
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Seems to be a theme with this bike. For every good I find a bad. One oil line is in pretty decent shape. The other is frayed quite badly in one area. The oil tank is self explanatory. Someone brazed a fitting in for an oil temp sending unit. This section could easily be cut out and with a little tig magic and some work no-one would know there was a repair made...except me. I'll be keeping my eyes open for a good tank.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/oil_tank_lines.jpg)
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Wayne,
Seems like the way it goes with me too, good news, bad news. Interesting about that fitting. With the breather holes I wouldn't there would be any pressure in the oil tank. Maybe I'm wrong but I thought the oil fed by gravity to the pump and then circulated back to the tank. The experts can chime in here but I think the earlier tanks were a little different, flatter, thinner maybe?
Nice to see you making progress.
Mark
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Here's a shot of my engine "dot". As you can see it's blue/green. The bike was Red until someone painted it the awful brown it is now. (The last owner told me on the weekend it is GM Autumn Brown) I have another name for it! ;)
For what it's worth, here's my Green Dot.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/blue_green_dot2.jpg)
Got the carb's off. Nothing too noteworthy here I don't think.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/carbs_1.jpg)
Pulled a bowl off for a peek.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/carbs_bottom.jpg)
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Got all of the electrical off the bike including the wiring harness. It's an -0400 harness and only 3 connectors have been compromised. (cut) The rest are all original but the clear covers are as hard as a rock for the most part. I know these can be replaced. As well the black sheathing is split and hard. I can't decide whether to just get the superceded harness and have everything nice and new, or restore this old girl. I guess I could always cut the extra wire off on a new harness, take my -0400 tag and make it looks like it belongs there or have a tag made up and make a completely new "forgery". ;) I have a while to weigh my options and gather member feedback.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/0400_wiring1.jpg)
Hard to see but there are 2 blue crimp connectors and one cut wire at the ignition switch.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/0400_wiring2.jpg)
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Always good to keep the original if at all possible - I think you will find that the "050" looms are different in that they have two extra wires into the headlight for those markets that run a pilot light in the headlight. Can't be seen when fitted, but YOU will know!
As well as the problems you have mentioned with yours, I have had several (040, and 050) where the square block connectors are partially melted, usually at the rectifier connection where poor contacts have caused overheating - Any one found a source of the early "non latch" type connectors?
Cheers - Chris R.
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Waine,
i've used for my 2 restore 2 new OEM wire haress:one works great and one so so, the rear parking light when is ON also the engine can start ??? ??? ???
As soon i've time i'll search the defect. :'(
My suggestion for You is:
use the your wire harness, restore it with http://www.vintageconnections.com/
In this site you can find the old look for your connections and lines. :)
Ciao
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Thanks for the info Riccardo / Chris. Perhaps best to see what I can do with this harness.
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I think my original K0 wiring loom looks superb now and my wiring loom looked pretty bad to start with from a UK bike 40 years old. I used
http://www.vintageconnections.com Thanks to post from 'Hondaman' for non-latch connectors, bullets and more importantly the sleeving. UK people - Don't buy the ones off Ebay - the bullets are the wrong size and the sleeving is non-glossy and crap. You can clean up any plain brass connectors after degreasing with alcohol using a 50/50 mix of coke (phosphoric acid) and lemon juice (citric acid) and replate any tinned connectors with the tinning solution used in PCB manufacture (sadly the modern less toxic stuff isn't a patch on the old stuff but I still have some old stuff). I even found my coloured wires came with small printed wording 'Sumitomo 1969' Cool! The rule is to use the proper non-adhesive loom tape -NO HEATSHRINK (apart from soldered splices on repairs inside the loom) and only a few inches of black insulation tape for the ends of the non-adhesive wrapping. Any repairs can be made using wires from any scrap SOHC loom and you can turn round the red glass woven sleeving so that the bit non-faded from under the black tape is where the exposed part is normally.
BTW - may be old hat to everyone but the rectifier diodes on the 3-phase recifier can be removed individually and replaced with ones from another scrap rectifier because they de-solder from the connector plate. Be careful though as one plate is common anode and one common cathode bodies.
Just my 2 cents/pence worth - shoot me down in flames if you don't agree ;D - I am more than happy with it.
BTW Anyone contemplating a repro Honda one beware this from CMS customer feedback!
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
1 of 1 people found the following review useful:
wire harness, Thursday, April 16, 2009
Reviewer: Juergen Schroeder
In general this wire harness looks as good as the original one and comes with all the connections necessary. Although, lately, i.e. one year of my purchase I had problems with the electricity from the ignition lock. It turned out that the black mass wires inside the harness (thus invisible from the outside) were only rolled around each other and not soldered!!! The producer of the wire harness should be told to solder these connections and he will spare people hours of endless search and despair.
Was this review helpful to you ? (login required)
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Hi Wayne,
This was the harness we were talking about. Sorry I did not post this before the end of auction, I tried to get this but I missed.
It is the 300-040
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/69-70-Honda-CB-750-Sandcast-Wiring-Harness-Switches-/290497993007?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43a307992f
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I think my original K0 wiring loom looks superb now and my wiring loom looked pretty bad to start with from a UK bike 40 years old. I used
http://www.vintageconnections.com Thanks to post from 'Hondaman' for non-latch connectors, bullets and more importantly the sleeving. UK people - Don't buy the ones off Ebay - the bullets are the wrong size and the sleeving is non-glossy and crap. You can clean up any plain brass connectors after degreasing with alcohol using a 50/50 mix of coke (phosphoric acid) and lemon juice (citric acid) and replate any tinned connectors with the tinning solution used in PCB manufacture (sadly the modern less toxic stuff isn't a patch on the old stuff but I still have some old stuff). I even found my coloured wires came with small printed wording 'Sumitomo 1969' Cool! The rule is to use the proper non-adhesive loom tape -NO HEATSHRINK (apart from soldered splices on repairs inside the loom) and only a few inches of black insulation tape for the ends of the non-adhesive wrapping. Any repairs can be made using wires from any scrap SOHC loom and you can turn round the red glass woven sleeving so that the bit non-faded from under the black tape is where the exposed part is normally.
BTW - may be old hat to everyone but the rectifier diodes on the 3-phase recifier can be removed individually and replaced with ones from another scrap rectifier because they de-solder from the connector plate. Be careful though as one plate is common anode and one common cathode bodies.
Just my 2 cents/pence worth - shoot me down in flames if you don't agree ;D - I am more than happy with it.
They'll be no one shooting you down in flames Ash. That's a great post. I learnt something from it ie: you can turn round the red glass woven sleeving so that the bit non-faded from under the black tape is where the exposed part is normally. Good stuff 8) KP
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Cheers KP !! Sometimes don't know if I ramble on too much !!!
Anyone know where to get small quantities of the silicone impregnated white glass woven sleeving of various sizes. I have found loads of places which make it in the UK (Lancashire seems to be popular) but they want to sell me miles of it. I am trying to get samples, as I run my own small electronics company so I have a legitimate reason to request. I need some for the alternator sub-harness, points lead and oil pressure switch.
For example:
http://www.birchvalley.co.uk/uploads/Non%20shrink%20Vidaflex%20111.pdf
BTW you know those three little bits on the Regulator. If these are not too bad, then leave them in a mixture of neat bleach and biological washing powder for an hour or so and they come up a treat.
Back to the connectors I also hear that the Yamiya pack of them are good and good value.
On another subject I was thinking of getting some graphics made on a backing sheet of masking material printed with the markers and 9 figure around the Tacho face. You could use this to mask the red line - respray the red-line and then pick off with a pin whist the paint is still soft. What do you all think?.My gauge faces are perfect apart from the red line on the tacho. Lecram's faces seem really good but it's a shame to have to replace perfectly good faces because of the red line fading. Anyone know a font size that is a match for the 9 figure.
My mate is analysing the rubber dampers in the primary drive sprocket assembly. I have three virtuallly NOS Genuine Honda ones from KOS on the SOHC4 site for this analysis. As soon as I have the analysis and microhardness specs, my other friend who runs an automotive rubber moulding company near me (and Goldwing owner & CB750 Cafe bike) is going to quote me on the tooling and moulding of them. A German forum already sells sets of these but will not sell to nonmembers and will not share the tech details.
Rambling over back to the Cider!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) Cheers Ash
Postscript -- Just noticed that the link I gave for silicone/glass sleeving advertises cut lengths of the stuff !! Will phone 'em Monday.
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Should be pulling the engine tomorrow or next day. I'm just getting all of my parts ready that will need to be blasted and painted black. I found a pretty decent mainstand. (mine was missing) What is the concensus on the brace? Should I leave it or remove it?
What about the Triple Trees? Same paint as frame? Powder Coat? Someone said to me that a sandcast should not have any PC but I have seen PC trees out there.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/main_stand.jpg)
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Hi Wayne,
At your VIN, the original mainstand would NOT of had the strut on the left hand leg, so personally I would remove it.
Whilst I have so far used powder coat on my frames, mostly because I want to be able to ride my bikes without worrying about stone chips (and the guy I use does not put too much on so it looks like plastic coating), the triples trees I have always painted using rattle cans - gloss black on the lower tree and a satin black on the top tree which I believe to be the Honda finish. Just my view.
Cheers - Chris R.
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Hi Wayne,
At your VIN, the original mainstand would NOT of had the strut on the left hand leg, so personally I would remove it.
Whilst I have so far used powder coat on my frames, mostly because I want to be able to ride my bikes without worrying about stone chips (and the guy I use does not put too much on so it looks like plastic coating), the triples trees I have always painted using rattle cans - gloss black on the lower tree and a satin black on the top tree which I believe to be the Honda finish. Just my view.
Cheers - Chris R.
Thanks Chris. I figured the brace should come off, just thought I would check. From what I have gathered I will be doing the frame and frame components in a single part Urethane, about 90% gloss. If you say so, it's gloss on the lower tree and satin on the upper.
I can only assume they flattened out the upper tree to tone down any reflection when viewing the gauges. Why the high gloss on the lower tree though? Why not the same as frame or even the upper tree for that matter? Just curious. Don't know why I can't just "do"! Always have to know why for some reason! :)
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In the home stretch as far as taking the old girl apart. I'm in the same boat as Mark as far as Fork Tubes. Looks like I'll be giving Forking by Frank a call!
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/forks_ears.jpg)
The finish on the lower Cushions is just crazy! In areas they looked polished, in other areas it looks like a think film of (plating??) is peeling. Around the mounting bosses where I wiped a pile of oil sand dirt off is what I believe to be the proper finish.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/plungers.jpg)
And of course, now the ugly. I have a crack in one of the mounting boss's. No big deal to repair, just something else to do! Perhaps Santa will make my life easy and find me a correct set of NOS lower Cushion's for this sandy! ;)
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/plunger-Crack.jpg)
A little bend in the right headlamp ear. Again, no big deal. Candy Red Paint shows through in the lower area.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/headlight_ears.jpg)
Hopefully tomorrow the engine will come out and I'll get all the black pieces sorted and ready to send out for blasting and paint. Can't wait to have everything cleaned up so I can start moving in the other direction!
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Here's another anomaly with this bike I haven't figured out. Note the seat pan shown is a later pan. That little white tag you see is a tag with the original owners name on it. Assume it was put there when he got th eoriginal re-covered. We have identified the 10 hole on up to bike 1081. How could 576 possible have wound up with a later pan from what appears to be day 1? I'm guessing everyone will say that I should buy a 10 hole/red foam to make it authentic and I probably will, but this one has me somewhat puzzled.
(I guess there's a chance the Dealer changed it for whatever reason prior to sale)
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/seat_pan.jpg)
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Wayne,
Re. finishes on the frame and upper / lower trees - just my observations from the five or six sandcast / K0's I have experienced, plus some NOS triple trees I have. Would welcome opinion from others out there.
In my experience, it doesn't matter how much we think we know, there is always more often contradictory evidence to take in - 40 years of aging / owner polishing / re-finishing can lead us astray too!
Cheers - Chris
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Thanks Chris. if you guys can be lead astray imagine a newb like me! ??? ??? Oh well, we'll give it our best shot.
I wiped down the underside of the lower tree. I can see where it is more glossy than the upper. So I guess it's a matter of figuring out if it is glossier than the frame or the same? (90% gloss)
Surprisingly the door to the lock came open with no effort. The tumbler will move around with my finger but it does not match the ignition key I have for the bike. The tumbler is a T4997.
The number in the casting is "M1" with a "J" on the other side.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/lower_tree.jpg)
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for plug keys, contact Mark Troxell at c100scub@aol.com hondakeys.com
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Well I finally got around to getting engine out of the frame. Thinking ahead and knowing I don't have a lift I wanted to come up with something that I could rely on that would be damage free during the installation process. Everyone has see the trick of laying the frame on it's side with the engine supported by heavy blankets etc. Well I went a step further and made a mold of the end of the engine using expandable foam. It worked great. Two of us were able to lift, rotate and set the frame/engine on the mold side. I removed the last two mounting bolts and we wiggled the frame over the motor with ease. The motor stood there in the mold until we were ready to heave it onto my workbench for further surgery.
My crude but effective mold:
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/engine_mold.jpg)
Engine 748 on the bench and ready for a refurbish:
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/engine_out.jpg)
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Clever idea! I wish my engine looked half that good. Hopefully the inside of yours looks better than mine does too.
Mark
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I hope so as well Mark. Not a drop of water in the oil. It was like new and compression was great on all cyl's. I can't wait to get into it. Have one broken bolt to get out of the head for an exhaust flange. I already loosened all of the rocker cover screws. They have been soaking in Liquid Wrench for a while. They all came loose with just a screwdriver. :) I'll pop the cover off tomorrow.
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Found some time tonight so I popped the rocker cover off. All went well with the exception of one frozen screw. All the others came out with ease. Strange. ??? I just drilled the head off to avoid breaking it and removed the cover.
Here's what I found. I wiped nothing off...notta! :) Note what look like felt pen markings on the camshaft holders. I'm guessing perhaps some was in there for a related Service Bulletin?
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/engine_valvetrain.jpg)
A closer shot:
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/engine_valvetrain_B.jpg)
And the cover. I couldn't believe how clean it was. I never wiped a speck or a drop off for this pic.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/inside_rocker_cover.jpg)
And a close up showing what I assume may be a date stamp???
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/rocker_cover_markings.jpg)
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Beeeuuuuteeeful, Wayne !
Somewhere in the BB there is an article on the date stamping methodology, i annot remember the exact details, but your dates stamp's interpretation is 44th year of the Emporer's Reign, 4th month and 8th day.
April 8, 1969
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Thanks Steve. Any thoughts on what look like felt marker strikes?
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Chris or Marty would have a better idea than me. I'm sure the marks had something to do with the set up of the camshaft holder caps. The caps are matched with stampings to their respective towers.
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Has anyone spotted something different here. Now fellas this is important and it relates to the underside of the cam cover. We saw the cam cover from Mark's engine and it's something I've never seen, now we have Wayne's cam cover which looks similar to most others. Well I have 2 covers (later) that are different again. I'll post photos of these on the weekend.
The point is that posting of these pictures by Wayne and Mark is revealing some significant finds for us and is giving us insights to changes that we may never have been aware of.
Fellow sandcast owners, If you can access your cam covers for diecast as well as sandcast PLEASE take a picture of the underside and either post them here or send to Steve or myself as this is of interest to us.
The second item of interest relates to the camshaft holders. Have a look at the holder Mark has pictured and then look at the holder Wayne has pictured. They are a different casting. Note the flat top section of Mark's and the rounded top section of Wayne's. Really interesting.
That makes 90 differences I believe. :-* KP
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Here's a closer shot of what I believe KP is talking about:
No I didn't put what looks like a felt marker strike on the holder ???)
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/engine_valvetrain_close.jpg)
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When I picked the bike up at noted that the head had been hit on the right rear corner cracking the cooling fin. I checked it and it seemed solid so I left it during transport with intentions of repairing it when I got the head off.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/head_fin_chip1.jpg)
When I got my engine on the bench I noticed that the piece had now fallen out! I have no idea when or where. A good look around my garage revealed nothing.
If anyone has a salvage head laying around I could use a section to do a little grafting. Much appreciated. Here's the chipped fin.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/head_fin_chip.jpg)
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Let me jsut say I've had GREAT results straightenng really bent fins using MAP gas bottle on a propane torch head and a wide/square nosed set of pliers. When the fin gets to working temp, can feel the metal move through the plier handles. When moving the heated aluminum, feels like stiff butter.
As far as welding a later fin to an earlier fin, be sure you have a welder who has experience working with this older metal. Even the metal in a later fin heats and reacts differently than a earlier head/fin. Not particularly tricky as long as the welder knows the charactersitics of the metal he is working with.
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I can chop some pieces off some scrap F1 barrels if you like but obviously I am in the UK so postage may be a bit steep. I could send 50 gramme package for 1.98 GBP though, which is reasonable. Or perhaps a USA member may be able to chip in. I also have scrap K7 barrels. Which will fit? Any suggestions? ChrisR?
Best regards
Ashimoto
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Steve is it anything like welding old British cases/heads? The guy I use welded cases and a head on an old T120 Triumph for me. He actually took a piece of crankcase from another bike and welded it into my case. Also did some chips in the head cooling fins. All turned out well.
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Wayne, i'm sure it's the same issues, different content of elements making up the aluminum mixture as well as purity, although one would not think there would be that much difference in metallurgy between heads used on the same model/mfgr motorcycle in a short span of years.
i'd take Ash up on his offer !
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I can chop some pieces off some scrap F1 barrels if you like but obviously I am in the UK so postage may be a bit steep. I could send 50 gramme package for 1.98 GBP though, which is reasonable. Or perhaps a USA member may be able to chip in. I also have scrap K7 barrels. Which will fit? Any suggestions? ChrisR?
Best regards
Ashimoto
Ash, just let me know how much you want total and your preferred payment method. I'll message you my shipping information. Thanks!
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Just realized Wayne it's your head with the broken fin and I have barrels but I just chopped a piece off and compared with my 10/69 head fins and I reckon you could 'graft' a barrel piece on and reshape (see pic)
I packed the piece in the pic in a 'mail Lite' packet and it weighs 10g total so you could have a couple of bits for 1.82 GBP postage !! if it is too small let me know and I will see if I can get a bigger bit.
Let me know if you want it and i will post off tomorrow. You can refund the postage later by PayPal - no rush at all. obviously I need your address
Cheers
Ash
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Ash
Sent you a message. (look in the "MY MESSAGES" button in the top menu) I think the piece will work fine. Include your PayPal address in your response. Thanks!
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Got PayPal shipping payment Wayne for fins, so sending off today ( I chopped off a second and slightly larger piece too so you have two to 'play' with. Plus I have included 2 off 46 ID x 2mm section VITON 'O' rings for your oil pump which Honda do not list anymore as an obtainable part ( gave a few to ChrisR too). Same goes for you Mark if you need a couple. If you don't need 'em Wayne just pass them on to another member.
Cheers
Ash
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Thank you Ash. Your assistance is very much appreciated. :)
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Wayne, At the risk of being howled down, I would like to add some input to your experience. Having had need to repair many many many many broken fins over the years, oils aint oils. The sandcast engines and this is all of them including heads and cylinders were cast using the sand-casting process (thats a revelation ;D) either permanent mold or green sand. It doesn't really matter as the issue is about the alloy used in the process. Some alloys whether sand or die cast show similar properties in their use and in some cases (not very common though) can be used in all molding techniques. In relation to heads, there are 2 very different casting methods and all later heads were die-cast. The alloy used was very different from that used in the sand-cast heads. Sandcast heads are made from nearly pure alloy and are a welders dream. Many diecast alloys are weldable but require specialised techniques and specific rods and equipment to weld. Welding a diecast fin with a specialised rod and tig welder is a piece of cake but only because of the equipment and rod used. The same rod used in welding a sandcast head won't have much success with a diecast job and vice versa. I'm neither a professional welder or a metallurgist but I've had advice from both over the years and had both welded. Some diecast pieces I'v had welded were total disasters not because of the welder or the equipment but because of the composition. Try welding a sprocket cover and you will experience for yourself.
I would suggest that welding a diecast fin to a sandcast head is not an ideal fix. The method I use is to have a good welding shop (a boat shop has a cue on good alloy welders) weld up the fin which is easily shaped back to original using a fine tooth file. You would be hard pressed to pick the fix at 12 inches let alone 3 feet. This head of mine pictured had the top fins repaired by the method just outlined and I doubt you could find the fin area repaired. With paint it will never be picked
Just my thoughts
(http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc190/kerrycbx/SandcastHead969.jpg)
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KP I respect your input totally. I would not even take this head to a welder until I have seen the input from others (the experienced) on this board. To be honest, it will probably drive me crazy knowing the fin is repaired. That's just the way I am. I would much rather drop a "perfect" casting on my project and sell mine.
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I agree with KP.
I've had experience on my both sandcast engine, restored until now.
My welder did a great job with TIG.
My welder in those cases add and add pure alloy with TIG, a very alloy statification.
In this way the finns goes to increase themself and after the welder job is very easy remake the same aspect and size with very small tools with drill and flexible cable to do a precision hand work.
Because i retain that you'll sandblast the engine, i can assure you that will be impossible to find the zone of the weld.
The sanblast action will do to the engine a regular silk aspect, obviously depending from the mesh used.
And after repaint you'll have a perfect engine.
Moreover, i retain not easy weld the fin in the deep trought the fins because the terminal part of the TIG has about 1,5 centimeter of diameter.
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Encountered a bit of a problem with the side stand on this old girl. Seems it was bent/broken and the tab was not welded back into place correctly.
As you can see, stick weld was used and a huge gap was filled at the rear leaving the tab at the wrong angle:
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/sidestand_bracket_rear.jpg)
And from the front side:
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/sidestand_bracket.jpg)
After checking on a couple of pics from other members frames I decided to cut my tab off and see what we have. What we found is, the reinforcement plate had torn up from the rear and forward and that's basically about where it was welded back into place!
When we ground away the weld and tapped the old plate back into place we felt we could pretty well tell where the tab should be positioned. A few marks on the frame and the cutter came out again. We tack welded om a new reinforcement plate and tried to position the tab using the measurements we had taken earlier. We know we are on the money in the fore-aft position. The question is have we got it right as it rolls around the frame? I think we're close but it's difficult without another bike to compare to. Any input is appreciated. I'm also just going to tack weld it and put the wheels beck on to see how it sits. Mu biggest concern is when in the upright position the stand rests on a rubber stopper I believe. If I miss that I might be in a bit of a jam. :(
From the rear tacked in place:
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/side_stand_rear_fixed2.jpg)
Another angle:
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/side_stand_rear_fixed.jpg)
Stand in downposition:
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/side_stand_down_position.jpg)
Stand in up position:
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/side_stand_up_measure.jpg)
Shown following frame in upright position:
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/side_stand_up_position.jpg)
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Looks like you are off to the beginings of a good repair !
Do you have replacement exhaust ? If so, could bolt crank cases together, install cyl and head w/ spigots, then install exhaust w/ rubber cushion to make sure side stand strikes in desired location.
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Nope, no exhaust Steve. I was saving that expense until the end. I was hoping a couple of triangulated measurements would give us that fiducial measuring point. Damn hard when you haven't got another bike at hand to look at!
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Since you're going to ride the bike, an option would be to source a nice set of HM300's for a reasonable price (should be very easily doable.) Then you could toss the engine in the frame and mount the exhaust to check for proper side stand position against the rubber cushion.
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Yes, that is an option, even if they are a damaged set. I did want to put the No # exhaust in as the final pipes. They are on sale right now, 15% off but sold out. Hopefully something will roll right here soon. On a bit of a bad roll! lol
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Wayne,
Not sure this will be much help but I snapped a couple of pictures of 1553. The first one with the lever down shows the left side of the bracket very close to perpendicular to the frame, pretty close to what you have.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10002/DSC05253.JPG)
This second shot with the lever up shows a dimension of 4 3/8". Again, pretty close to what you have. I think you have the best idea in mounting the exhaust to confirm where it's hitting. Looking straight down with the lever in the up position, it's pretty close to parallel with the centerline of the frame.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10002/DSC05243.JPG)
Here's a shot from the bottom.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10002/DSC05246.JPG)
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Got an early Christmas present in the mail today. My oil tank came! :) This one has not been compromised and appears to be in nice shape.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/oil_tank1.jpg)
Clean on back as well. I don't see a Date Stamp but then I didn't on my original. Question is, do I strip this one and paint the same as the rest of the black frame items or leave it as is? It only has a few "character" marks on it in the places you would expect them.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/oil_tank2.jpg)
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Nice score! On 5383 I didn't repaint because it was in pretty good shape. The one before that on my K0 I did have repainted but it was a pain to plug all the holes, especially the fill hole, and make sure no blasting media got in the tank. If I were you I'd be tempted to use it as is.
Mark
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Looking at Mark's side stand pics from 1553 above I think I'm close. I know my position is correct along the frame rail as it wasn't torn off the original re infocement on the outward side. When we ground the crap off the rear of the tab we tapped the plate back into place and took a measurement of the tab location on the frame rail. It appears we may have the angle of the tab close as well. It looks close to 90 deg. like 1553 and the measurement to the frame rail is virtually the same with the stand up.
I think the only area we may or may not be out is on the outward angle of the tab. If I knew that angle I think I would just weld this old girl up and move on. Anyone?
Here's the angle I'm looking for:
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/outward_angle2.jpg)
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Found this pic over at SOHC4. I sure don't want to have this problem after paint! Looks like that angle I need will have to be pretty bang on.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/misaligned_sidestand.jpg)
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Refer: Stand in down position photo. Angle doesn't look right. Could be just the picture but just doesn't look correct.
Fellas, can someone with a bare frame help Wayne out here.
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Are you talking about Wayne's or my "stand in down position photo"? With a little luck, I might have a bare frame by the end of the weekend.
Mark
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Mark
I hope the pic of 1553 with the stand down is correct. It doesn't look repaired unless it was all on the back side like mine was on 576. Don't feel pressured to get 1553 apart on my behalf. I have lots of other things to do like get the motor torn down.
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Sorry, I was referring to Wayne's photo posted on Decenber 22. I don't think it matters which model frame
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Mark
I hope the pic of 1553 with the stand down is correct. It doesn't look repaired unless it was all on the back side like mine was on 576. Don't feel pressured to get 1553 apart on my behalf. I have lots of other things to do like get the motor torn down.
The weld doesn't look repaired at all. And there's no pressure, from you anyway. I need to get it torn down so I can get mine repaired too so I can get the frame to the painter. And I want to check out the cylinder on 1553 so I need to get the motor out but before I tear down the motor I want to put it 97's frame so I can do your idea of putting on the exhaust pipe to check out the location. I hate to say it but thinking these things through is half the fun for me. ;D
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Started to take down the engine today. All went pretty well except I couldn't get the head separated from the cylinders. I have been faced with this challenge many times over the years and resorted to methods such as cranking the engine with head bolds loose, introducing compressed air to the cylinders...you get the idea. Anyway, I lifted both the cylinders and head together to see if I could get a better angle at breaking them loose. No such luck and I'm scared to death of doing damage to one or the other. I did remove the 4 philips screws from under the pucks. (I didn't even have to make a narrow socket as I have seen others do for the outside ones. Some Liquid Wrench, tap tap and out they came) Also got the one at the rear. If anyone has any tricks up their sleeve to separate the head from the cylinder I'm all ears.
Update:
I got the head off. Having learned over the years that hammers just break things, I knew I had to find a way to get a wedge between the cylinders and the head. The only area I could see that seemed robust enough was at the rear of the head where the bolt went through to the cam tensioner area. I used utility knife blades for the job, tapping them in gently. It took 3 before I could hear the satisfying sound of the gasket letting go. wheeew! :) With my wedges driven deeper I used a hardwood dowel and hammer to gently tap the head from it's dowels on the other side.
I noticed a date marking on the rocker carriers so I took a shot. May or may not be of interest. :looks like 44.5.8 on both carriers.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/cam_carrier_date.jpg)
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For those that don't know of this type of dating system used by the Japanese bike manufacturers, they used a dating system based on the reign of the emperor in power at the time. Date is 69 May 8 or 69 August 5. I think the Japanese used US system of writing dates.
Emperors reign from 1924 to 1969 (If memory serves and I'm feeling lazy so won't look it up). Always add 1 extra to the reign so 1924 to 1969 is 1969- (1924 +1) = 44years
I' not sure about the 5 and 8 In Oz we would say 69 August 5. You have a different way of writing the date
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KP, I'm just blown away that the dates are still intact after all these years. I'm going to do my darnedest to keep them intact throughout the rebuild. I touched one and it looks like it may have smeared a bit.
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This is the 3rd or 4th time i've revisited this topic and it seems to be one of those things i cannot commit to my ever aging brain/memory.
I'm hoping Chris will step in, as i tried writing from memory once before on the BB about this dating system and thoroughly butchered the topic.
The dating system is from the Japanese Showa period http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sh%C5%8Dwa_period (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sh%C5%8Dwa_period) and dates the reign of Hiro Hito (Emperor Showa), 1926-1989 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirohito (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirohito)
As KP said, the dating system starts in 1926. Hoping Chris chimes in............. ;D
I do know this topic is somewhere in the BB.........
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Aside from the system itself guys, is it common to find the stamps on the various engine parts as well preserved as they are on 748? I'm just surprised they haven't washed/worn away over time.
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My experience, it is common to see the date marks on engine internals. It is surprising how well they remain intact and yet how vulnerable they are to being wiped away.
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The Showa dating system must be (1926 -1)+44. I said 1924. I knew it was something along those lines ;D. Yes it is amazing about those dates The dates on the set for E894 are 44-5-21 so the US date system is used. Interesting. A lot of the Kawasaki parts use the Showa dating method
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In the case of Emperor Showa, what's amazing is the era of history he helped create. He was believed by many to be a divine god. Sorry Wayne, i am hi-jacking your thread........ :(
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No problem Steve. It's all interesting stuff.
Pulled a bit more apart today. I feel and hurt my back the other day so I had to cut it short. :( I did get the alternator cover and alternator off. The wiring is like dry twigs! Going to have to do some work to fix that harness up. Just moving it breaks it open and none of the connectors will come apart. They are hard as rocks. Starter is off. Nothing eventful there other than the cable is just so so in my opinion.
Pulled the pistons from their perches. Took a quick measurement. All are well within spec. The only bit of concern is a broken compression ring on #1. It's broken into 3 pieces. I checked the ends for "polishing". No evidence of any even under magnification so I'll rule out tight end gap. I don't have feeler gauges narrow enough to check the ring side clearance. If I re-use these pistons (which I doubt) I will be sure and do it. I suspect #1 got lean at some time in it's life causing detonation.
I said IF as I'm leaning on going to the first OS. It just makes sense to be when you have gone this far, to start with a perfect bore and a nice new set of slugs.
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The way it was explained to me by a guy in the UK (who has been riding Hondas for FIFTY years now) was that the system is related to year of reign of the Japanese Emporer. Apparently his reign commened in 1925 (year "0"), hence 1969 is the 44th year of "his" reign, with the month / day numbers appearing in US date order.
So, just add 25 to the year number....Date of the carrier in question is 44.5.8, which becomes 1969, May 8th.
I have found these "showan" dates on quite a number of engine components now, including cylinder barrel top fin, clutch baskets, cam carriers, inside valve covers,... Not always on the same parts within different engines though. Just today found them on a set of rear brake shoes in a '71 750K2 ("46" being the showan year in that case).
Whilst the ink is reasonably robust, must be to have lasted 40+ years so far, solvent cleaning will certainly take it off.
Happy New Year to you all - Chris R.
Having posted the above, KP very kindly did some research and established the facts wrt the dating sytem...
In fact, Hirohito's reign was from 25 December 1926 to 7 January 1989, with 1926 (all 6 days of his reign during it) being year 1, 1927 being year 2, etc, until we get to 1969 which is year 44.
The simple ruse of adding 25 to the year number works, but not because that is the year of his accession. Detailed explanation of the way the Japanese calendar system works can of course be found in great detail on the internet for those who want to know more.
Thanks again to KP for setting the record straight. - Chris R.
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I spent the last month searching for the silicone coated, woven glass, braided sleeving (three sizes) for the alternator harness, oil pressure switch cable and the points sub loom for the Sandcast / early K0. I finally have samples and its a pretty good match the original in white. The only gripe I have with it is that the silicone coating is only a thin coat so I have treated it with non-acetic acid based white silicone compound and it is now closer to the original. I have also sourced clear heatshrink for the ends of the alternator sub harness. I appreciate that the ends were originally wrapped in clear tape of some kind but the heatshrink looks pretty good, even though normally hate the use of heatshrink on wiring looms. I found that the Yamiya harness is not a good replica of the Sandcast/early VIN K0 and the same for the earth cable. I have done a post mortem on the battery earth cable too and replicated the multi strand inner/braided outer for the earth cable which turns out a round section rather than the 'flat' look of the Yamiya harness (which also has incorrect crimped terminals too instead of soldered, as original). Samples of my 'experiments' are being sent to ChrisR this week - If Chris thinks they look OK then that's good enough for me!! The only thing I am re-using is the black thin walled rubber tube fitted over the white braided glass sleeve on the alternator sub-harness.I am sure this can be found but people don't want to sell you a foot of it (as I have found with the glass braided sleeving!!)
I am also experimenting with renovating the original coils on the bike ( stripping back plastic to replace HT leads and then creating a mould to reform the plastic covering (MAD I KNOW!!). I am determined that my K0 will have as many of the original electrical parts on it, refurbished as best I can. I can't see the point in paying top prices for repro stuff that is not even faithful to the original and also it generates a great deal of satisfaction doing it.
http://www.yamiya750e.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_99&products_id=485 (http://www.yamiya750e.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_99&products_id=485)
BTW my coloured wiring on VIN 1010382 is printed 'Sumitomo 1969'
Cheers and a Happy New Year to you all!!
Ash D
Steve- I only put this here because of Wayne's comments on the alternator wiring. Please move as you deem fit!!
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Wow! :o I'd be interested to see how this all turns out. Thanks for the update Ash. KP
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As an aisde, Yamiya does sell the alternator harness.
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Took a few more bits and pieces off my motor. Still a bit sore from my fall so I'm going slow. I tackled head stud removal as I have decided to follow Mark's lead and install APE studs. After reading horror stories about removing this pesky studs I firsted squirted on some Liquid Wrench and let them soak overnight. Next day I just clamped on the vice grips and the first one came loose with little effort! I thought, this can't be! Sure enough, one after another, Liquid Wrench, tap, tap with a light hammer and they came free with just vice grips. As always, my luck ran out when it came to the last four, front and center. At that point I introduced some heat from my heat gun. After a couple of tries I got 2 more. I'm now down to the 2 front inside studs and I can't seem to budge them. I have tapped on them with my hammer, rang them hoping the harmonic frequency might loosen their hold, heated them multiple times with my heat gun, used opposing vice grips, vice grips and a wrench on the stud double nutted. No luck! >:(
I read about bending the studs and removing them that way but that makes me a bit nervous. I'm getting a good bite with 2 vice grips and I have always had a good feel for when things will twist off. I don't want that to happen.
I'm thinking what I might try after letting them soak again for a while and freeze my Vice Grips. After heating the case I'll clamp my frozen Vice Grips to the stud. Perhaps we'll get enough shrinkage on the stud to help things along. ???
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More soaking and I'll bet they come out. I agree you're better off not pushing too far. (I should talk). ::) I even squirted mine after heating hoping that it was creating just the tiniest bit more gap. Even the ones that came out hard were wet so I know it was getting in there. Good luck.
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Still can't get those last 2 head studs out. :( I decided to split the cases and get everything packaged up for cleaning later. Once the cases are stripped it looks like there is open access to the stud bosses from the inside. Hopefully heating directly on the boss will free up the remaining studs. Also have the same problem Mark did with the roll pin for the kickstart shaft. It's frozen! Have it soaking in some miracle juice. I'll give it another try tomorrow.
When I split my cases I found that someone had left some markings in both the top and bottom case. Q - 17 marked on both halves. Anyone know what the meaning might be? My first though was, why is there English markings in a Japanese assembled motor? ??? Just as a last footnote, bearings are standard on the mains but I couldn't see any color on the shells, even under magnification. So much for my Dot theory. ;D
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/engine_top_Q17.jpg)
And again:
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/engine_bottom_Q17.jpg)
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Nice to see it coming apart, Wayne. I sure wish mine was that clean! Yes you can get to the bosses that the studs go into. Too bad they don't tap through so you could soak them from the bottom too but at least you can concentrate heat on them. Interesting on the Q17. Have the cases ever been apart? I remember there was some kind of writing on the inside of my K0 cases. I'll have to look through my photos and see if I can find it. I know I was the first one to split the case. If you can get your hands on a dent puller I'd recommend that. If I were to do it again I would just try clamping the pin with a vice grip onto the screw on the puller. With the slit in the pin is should collapse enough to clamp on the pin. Good luck.
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Mark, to my knowledge this engine has never been down. I watched carefully as I took it apart for any telltale signs. I didn't see anything. The recalls were done for the case guard, throttle cables etc. The Q 17 is a mystery to me. Perhaps there was a non Japanese employee in the plant leaving his mark???
Thanks for the tip on the roll pin. If it doesn't slide out for me I'll go grab a dent puller from my friends body shop.
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These markings using English alphabet are not uncommon. Why they are in English or who put them there, we'll probably never know. I feel pretty confident saying there were no "round eyes" at Honda making alphabet markings of any kind in English on the inside of the cases. The Japanese used, from the beginning, English alphabet STAMPED markings on the back crank case walls for denoting matched crank case halves. Also, the Japanese used English alphabet letters for crank shaft bearing sizing, as noted in the 3/12/70, #14 Service Bulletin. These ink markings are inside E4540's and E254's cases. Unfortunately i did not document them. The inside of the unstamped cases i recently sold have markings inside the upper case, i can barely make out what appears to be a "25" -and- there appears to be some sort of marking before the numbers, guessing it might possibly be a letter of the English alphabet. The lower case is pretty much wiped clean of any possible marking that could have been there at one time. Since i am so damn computer challenged, i will send Wayne a picture of the upper crankcase, he can share as he sees fit. I will hazard to guess, the ink markings denoting a machined/matched crank case set were made BEFORE the case matching stamps were made on the back wall of the case. Quite a number of these case had hand corrections made to them at some point in time, before being assembled as an engine. Perhaps these marking were used to denote some sort of correction had been completed on the case set, if not denoting a matched/machined case set.
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Here is the case that Steve Swan sent along. You cab see pretty clearly the "25" as part of a series of characters. Looks like we have another mystery to go along with the "Dots". :)
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/S_S_case_markings.jpg)
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What a difference a day makes! :) I got the head stud out finally! It was some stubborn! As a last resort I used a propane torch and lightly heated the boss and around the stud. I then melted some candle wax at the stud base and let it cool. Put the Vice Grips on, the wrench and said a few silent words. ;) I'll be darned if it didn't crack loose! Felt lucky as the stud was getting pretty ratted from the Vice Grips.
Now, onto the roll pin for the kick start shaft. I just warmed it up a bit as well, snapped my Vice Grips on and tapped on the Vice Grips at the lever pin where I could get some upward momentum. Some squirts of Liquid Wrench, some more tapping and out she came! ;D
So I guess this is the "turning point" for my project. Cleaning, painting, assembling, deciding what parts to replace etc.
Now there are SO many questions to be answered. I guess we tackle them as they come along. It does feel good to be at this juncture in the road though. :)
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Wayne, the only parts i would feel compelled to replace (barring signs of gross wear - unlikely) would be the tensioner assembly for the primary chains, bearings and seals. The primary chains don't stretch enough to have to be replaced. And, as i recall your bike does not have many miles on it. I would like to hear from Chris on his 5298 with 140,000 miles, if or when he replaced the chains. Likely the bearings are fine, but as inexpensive as bearing are, might as well.
2157, the tensioner rollers are soft, are going to keep them in use along with original chains.
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Thanks Steve. The cam tensioner rollers look a bit chewed up to me on the roller faces. As well, the cam chain guide is damaged so a new one is on the must have list. I have read that it is good insurance to replace both the cam and primary chains. Some guys are even buying aftermarket heavy duty units. Are they necessary??? I'll look for feedback from the group here. Bottom line is, I only want to go through this motor once.
At first blush the main bearings look good. I haven't mic'd the crank yet however the bearings are not galled. I have seen a lot of people re-use the crank and rod bearings when they rebuild these units. This goes against everything I was taught and practiced all my life. I have never re-used main journal or rod bearings in a motor.
I did pack mine in proper order, just in case. The mains are clearly marked "STD". I haven't checked the rods yet. In my mind, if the crank measures within standard limits I should be able to order up a new set of 'STD" bearings and have just a bit more peace of mind with my final product. I'm assuming that either Bearing A, B , C , or D in the parts manual is "STD". For some reason I didn't think the shells would have the conventional markings like STD. - .001 etc.
I think it's only wise to replace all of the roller bearings as well unless someone gives me a heck of a good reason not to.
All new seals are on my list as well as a Yamiya gasket set in order to get the right oil pan gasket. (thanks for that tip Mark)
I think a new kick start spring is just safe insurance while I have it apart.
There are lot's of little items but I want get going with the bottom end. Get it prepped, painted and assembled. Hopefully while I'm plugging away at that we can get my sidestand issue sorted out and then the frame work can move forward as well. And so goes the plan! :)
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Glad to hear you got your pins and studs out.
My main bearings look OK on 97 but I haven't checked them yet. After I get the cases cleaned I'm going to Plastigage them and if they check out I'm planning on reusing them. I've done this before and never had an issue. Just my opinion.
I was pleased with the quality of the Yamiya gasket set but it's a little spendy. You might be able to find a cheaper set and buy the oil pan gasket separately but I went for the convenience on that one. I also didn't use the head gasket that came with it. I bought the one recommended in service bulletin #42 to do everything I could to prevent oil leaks.
By the way, I have the engine out of 1553 and will finish stripping down the frame this weekend.
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For what its worth, #5298 is currently at 116,000 miles and still running well.
The only engine work was at 32,000 when the headgasket was replaced, and at the same time I replaced the cam chain, primary chains, tensioners for both, plus of course ALL seals / gaskets. The output shaft bearings were also replaced as I found some pitting of the races. All other bearings, shells, piston rings, valves, etc, were put back in. 84,000 miles on , there is no primary or cam chain rattle at all.
As to what should be replaced during a re-build, I would simply say anything which has any signs of wear / corrosion, and anything made of rubber (inculding cam tensioner and primary tensioner components) which may have hardened and therefore could deteriorate if / when next used. Mileage is perhaps also a factor to consider, but my experience suggests any motor with modest mileage which is clean looking will likely be good to go again.
Cheers - Chris R.
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Thanks so far everyone. After careful review of the manual and my engine markings I think I have my head around the bearing shell size thing. The only part that eludes me somewhat is the markings on the bearings themselves. Would a green or whatever color bearing still be marked as "STD"? My cases are marked BAABA yet all of my main bearing shells are:
AP220
D9D-A
STD
Does that mean they are all "A" bearing shells? If so, that should not be in my mind. ??? ???
Lastly, is this a typical marking on the rods? I usually only see marks there on rebuilt engines. Perhaps Honda marked them from the factory?
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/rod_markings.jpg)
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Waine,
i've had the same problems!
It's a real ROMPICAPO (head-distroyer)!!!!!!! ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Some signs are not easy to discover on the parts of the engine anf when you've discovered them the way it not easy to retrieve the color or the exact size of bearing.
Moreover, some size of bearings are not still available from Honda.
At end, i've used all STD bearings when i did my 2 rebuilt engines.
This is the suggestion can you read also on the "shop manual".
The best test after assembled the rods is the hand test: see if the rods turns easy or hard or if they have tollerances under your hands.
Be quiet, i dont think that you will go to run the 200 miles of Daytona, but i think that you will go to make walks in the days of sun.
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See service bulletins below and posting on this site
http://data.sohc4.net/SB750/750_31.pdf (http://data.sohc4.net/SB750/750_31.pdf)
http://data.sohc4.net/SB750/750_14.pdf (http://data.sohc4.net/SB750/750_14.pdf)
http://cb750sandcastonly.com/smf_forum/index.php?topic=225.0 (http://cb750sandcastonly.com/smf_forum/index.php?topic=225.0)
Cheers
Ash
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OK, things are getting clearer. On the other side of my conrods they are all stamped "2" on the top and bottom half. I'll take it from that they are "2" rods. No visible markings on my crankshaft though so I'll have to measure it and do the math. We'll used plastigauge before final assembly. Thanks!
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Got the side stand tab repairs done. We had to put on a new reinforcement plate and then weld the tab in place. When the tab is at the correct angle there is a huge gap on the inside that has to be filled. Every bike I looked at was the same. Not sure why Honda wouldn't have made a radiused tab so it fits the curve of the tube. Oh well, it's fixed, probably stronger than new. Thanks to all who helped with this one. My welder was hard pressed to make the weld look as bad as some others on the frame. He couldn't believe the gaps etc. in some. I told them they are "character" welds, don't make it too pretty! ;) I'll smooth the grinder marks on the frame before blasting and it should all be pretty transparent when painted. :)
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/sidestand_repair1.jpg)
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/sidestand_repair2.jpg)
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I think that looks pretty good. Are you planning on putting an engine in the frame and hanging an exhuast pipe on it to check out, or just run with it?
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I'm just going to run with it Mark. I knew the fore - aft position to be correct just needed that magic angle. Thanks! I put a stand on and it measured the same as yours when up and pretty well followed the frame lines. If it is out, I'm hoping it's marginal. So, while I wait to send the frame out for blasting and paint I have been working away on the motor.
A couple of the main brgs looked "iffy" to me. I don't like when they are shiny on the back side and in these cases the size information was worn off. Could indicate the brg. moving a bit. A couple of the faces are slightly galled, not badly but galled non the less. I didn't even bother to plastigauge them. For $144.00 Canuck Bucks she gets new mains.
I couldn't find the markings on my crank so I mic'd it. All of the main journals fell within 35.99 - 35.995 mm.
So that makes my journals what looks like the Japanese equals sign in the manual chart. ( = )
My case is marked B A A B A
So starting at the timing side the table would give me this selection of main bearings:
Green - Yellow - Yellow - Green - Yellow
Easy once you get your head around it. Also, I learned that all bearings, regardless of color are marked "STD". That really threw me off as I'm used to undersized bearings be marked as such.
I popped the rod cap's off for a peek and they look as smooth and shiny as new. I'll just platigauge them and re-use if within spec.
I decided to go with all new tensioners as well as chains. Figured I have the money fire going now I might as well really get it stoked! ;D
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Waiting for some engine parts so I thought I would just start to clean up the aluminum and see how it looks:
Nothing special in the before shot. Grease is washed off ready for a coat of paint remover.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/shifter_cover_1.jpg)
Paint remover did the job nicely revealing a pretty nice shifter cover! I did no scrubbing or sanding with any type of abrasive before this shot was taken. I just wanted to get an idea what was under the dirt and clear so I could decide how I am going to refinish my covers.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/shifter_cover_2.jpg)
I found this a bit interesting. It was under clearcoat so I'm assuming it was made this way. There appears to be an area that I thought perhaps had been polished. I ruled that out though as the "parting seam" between the two unique areas isn't uniform. It looks more like to me that the molten aluminum wasn't completely melted/blended before the pour which caused inconsistencies it the cover. Anyone ever seen this before?
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/shifter_cover_3.jpg)
So it looks like my covers are in pretty decent shape. Now what to do. I think I would like to land somewhere between satin and a high polished finish. Clear coat sticking is a must as I don't want the aluminum to become a maintenance item. I read that the Eastwood Clearcoast sticks pretty well. I'll probably use that.
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These inconsistencies "seams" in surfaces of covers are common. Makes obtaining a perfect polished finish nigh, if not, impossible. Hence, supporting rationale to have the semi-polished cover have clear coat finish to hide these "seams."
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Got around to pulling the rear hub apart and was pleasantly surprised when I cleaned up the flange. There was a layer of grease that had been there for an eternity I'm sure. When cleaned up I found that the original clearcoat and factory finish was virtually intact! The is the only aluminum piece on the bike in this condition so I get to see what the factory finish looked like. It is polished higher than I expected. It is reflective, but not like a mirror. I think it's the clearcoat itself dulling it down. Here's a shot. I guess I could have cleaned it up better for the pic. ;D
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/rear_flange_1.jpg)
In this pic I note a couple of things. First, they weren't too fussy about polishing the whole flange. The buffer just went around the flat surface, and knocked off some areas of the bolt bosses as it passed by. Secondly, you can tell the buffer was going around in a counterclockwise direction as the reinforcement ribs were hit and slightly polished on one side. I'll call it the back side. You can see it to the right of the bolt boss in this image.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/rear_flange_1.jpg)
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The same is true of engine covers. When I worked on my early diecast it still had (what was left of) the clearcoat and you could easily see areas on the bottom of the alternator cover and the middle of the valve cover where it looks like it was never even touched with a polishing brush. I think they only worried about the visible areas and did them as quickly and cheaply as possible. Hmmm, that would be a good way to tell if an engine was original. There is no way to replicate that look.
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Effectively the parts in aluminum were not polished like a mirror.
They had a polishing to half between the opaque finish and polishes.
Some times i'm carried to think that the covers already polishes from the stamps came outside and therefore polished in superficial way with medium brushes and then painted.
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Just grinding away at small stuff, waiting for clearcoat to arrive so I can test my polishing methods etc. so I thought I would look at what's ahead. When I looked at the combustion chambers a week or so ago I got a bit of a shock. I called the PO to see what happened and he said a Spark Plug broke off so he removed the engine and "split" the plug to get the pieces out. In doing so the threads in the head are badly damaged. They will hold a plug, and it was driven that way but I will be repairing that part for sure. I was a bit concerned about the damage in the chamber but on closer inspection it isn't too bad. I think when we rebuild the head I will just smooth and sharp edges to eliminate hot spots and blend them in. If anyone would like to chime in, feel free.
Of course if I could find a "prefect" replacement head with no cracked fins etc. that would be the way to go! ;) ;) ;D
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/plug_damage_1.jpg)
With Spark Plug Installed:
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/plug_damage_2.jpg)
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Need some advise here guys. Looking at my seat latch, it's in pretty good shape. Should I refinish it or just get the Yamiya unit? The only problem I foresee in refurbishing mine is the slight wear on the face of the slider, and how would my plater zinc the slider shaft? Can the ramp portion be removed? The rest looks straight forward....I think! You guys always throw a curve ball my way though! ;)
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Wayne, obviously your' no "neophite" and am hesitant to add. but main bearings sizes were/are determined by both case & crank demensions. Having case markings put you 1 step ahead of most. as these were the first to "dis-appear" (generally before the "magic marker" colors on the bearings themselves). crank sizes (both rod & main) were usually etched on the inside of the crank flyweights at cam chain. read left to right, 5 digits main, 4 digits rod. with a chart in the shop man to derive size/color..comparing case to crank clearances. Striations due to passing "debris"thru bearing are generally of little consequence, but any apperance of "copper" should be addressed. some "300" main bearins are NLA, but have been superceded to 422 or 425 (I think) at any rate plasitiguage doesn't lie. unless easily discernable damage has been done, My concern would be the maintaining of oil pressure which after failed oil pumps/blockage falls upon wiped plane bearings. watching w/intrest, G
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Need some advise here guys. Looking at my seat latch, it's in pretty good shape. Should I refinish it or just get the Yamiya unit? The only problem I foresee in refurbishing mine is the slight wear on the face of the slider, and how would my plater zinc the slider shaft? Can the ramp portion be removed? The rest looks straight forward....I think! You guys always throw a curve ball my way though! ;)
Wayne, Mate, that is the original part and I would use it. These were changed at some early point but I'm not sure of the VIN. Given you have a low VIN I would use it. These can be zinc plated with the hard plastic/rubber section intact as can the springs so just go for it. If you find any trouble send the part to me and I'll plate it in my home kit.
Trick here is to buff the steel shaft to expose clean steel and plate it after a good clean in mild detergent and rinse in clean water.
Ash is also into plating so he may offer some additional advice.
Dead f'en easy ;D KP
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Thanks KP. If my plater won't do it I'll follow up with you. I figured there was probably a good reason for retaining the original latch.
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Need more advice guys, on carbs. Looking at them I'm not sure what parts should come off for zinc. Mine are a bit aged so it's hard to tell. Obvious seems to be the choke arm, linkage and related fasteners. Anything else I should send out? I think I'm going to going with the zinc/nickel process as it is more robust than just zinc and looks identical. There is a minimum $175.00 charge so I want to get everything to them the first time! (if possible!) :)
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I had the 4 throttle slide adj.screws plated.
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Almost forgotthe petcock! Mine is a short so I want to restore it. It has grime, primer and paint in areas. It's a mess. Are these refinished any particular way or just say, soda blasted clean and reassembled. I'll add the screws into my zic batch. (if i ever get there!)
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Just an update on my trip to M&M Plating for my Zinc. After looking at samples of the zinc nickel I have decided to go with just clear zinc and gold zinc. Although the zinc nickel is more robust it has a shiny and more yellow appearance as you would expect with nickel plating. 200.00 cash for my clear and gold zinc pieces. That's all the parts including spokes and nipples. I might sell the spokes and purchase stainless. Haven't decided there yet.
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Wayne, $200 for "everything" is in the same ballpark as Specialty Plating, in Denver, charges me for "everything." Right on!
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Hi Steve n Wayne,
Just wanted to ask if you guys both wire wheel the parts to clean them before plating? Or fo you just leave it to the platers to acid bath the parts? Also, do u coat them to protect the zinc from tarnishing?
Thanks,
Steven.
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Steven
I cleaned a lot of the parts myself with CLR just to see the condition after zinc and corrosion was removed. The plater will use an acid bath to remove everything. He explained to me that all "stressed" parts like springs, spokes etc. will be put though a process after stripping so they are not brittle and will function as designed.
I really struggled with whether or not to go with the Zinc Nickel as it would do just as you described, protect the part for MUCH longer than just clear zinc. After looking at it though, because of sheen and colour I decided to go with zinc alone. The business owner concurred with my decision. He said If we are concerned about zinc discoloration, just put a thin coat of light oil on the fastener while in storage, after cleaning etc.
By the way, Jerry at M&m was great! gave me a tour of the place, showed me all of the process's they use. Pretty big operation. I was surprised!
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I run every part to be zinc'd over the wire wheel. Since our ave.relative humidity is around 25%, we don't worry so much about degradation of zinc finishes, at least for the short term. 4363 restoration was finished 2002, it still looks fresh. Like Wayne, in 2001, i did a tour of Specialty Plating (zinc) in Denver, they also put stressed parts through a process so they are not brittle.
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Prior to re-zinc, I always de-grease and then glass bead blast (we have a cabinet at work with "tumble basket"). Then take them straight to the plater for BZP which I understand is zinc with a clear passivate, Amazing how good the parts are that are returned. The last "whole bikes worth" (except spokes) of re-zinc I had done cost £25 ($40) through the back door of a commercial plater here in the UK.
The risk with the process is that during electroplating, hydrogen is generated and diffuses into the surface of the parts. Highly strength stressed items such as springs, spokes, spring washers, bolts, are all susceptible to hydrogen embrittlement, and can fail when re -used (all are stressed in tension when re-used). The failure usually occurs within a short time of re-use, but can wait a while before showing!
The risk can be eliminated with a "de-embrittlement" treatment (as Wayne's plater mentioned), which is basically a low heat soak for quite a number of hours - I forget the recommended conditions; the metallurgists at work will know.
Springs ESPECIALLY are at risk, hence I always use NOS mainstand / sidestand springs during a re-build, and also spokes as failures of these could be particularly painful on a bike which is to be ridden. I have had a number of spring washer failures over the years, but of course they are only security measures on bolts anyway.
Cheers - Chris R.
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I emailed Sue at Specialty Plating, to refresh my memory. They bake the parts at 350' for 3hrs to remove the brittleness.
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Well, got my zinc parts back today. For the most part they look great! I'm quite pleased. There are pieces that don't look so good, that being the larger parts like the brake anchor, hangar bolts and the arm for the axle wrench. If you look carefully at the pic's you will see these items look more like gray paint over spray than the more shiny zinc coating on the rest of the pieces. I'm not sure what to do with them at this point. I guess I may have to re-do them or if someone has a home system that can do a few parts for me perhaps that is another option.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/zinc_parts_1.jpg)
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/zinc_parts_2.jpg)
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Well, it's cold, my Harley is now in storage and my frame and related parts are back from my painter. I must say, having the zinc parts and painted parts back have me more than a bit pumped! PPG Concept #9300 Polyurethane paint is not available in Canada due to VOC regulations so my painter used House of Kolors Paint. (he's a regional rep) He seemed pretty well versed on how these frames were supposed to look so I let him go for it. Here is the end result. To me, it looks good. The pictures may change the gloss appearance to some degree. He told me the product he used is very durable and should hold up very well. Now if I can just get my hands on some DE1612 Engine Primer so I can get my engine together! Can't buy that in Canada either! Got the DE1615 Paint at the local Auto Store but not the primer. Sometimes living in the frozen North is frustrating.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/frame_paint_1.jpg)
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/frame_paint_2.jpg)
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/frame_paint_3.jpg)
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Well, got my zinc parts back today. For the most part they look great! I'm quite pleased. There are pieces that don't look so good, that being the larger parts like the brake anchor, hangar bolts and the arm for the axle wrench. If you look carefully at the pic's you will see these items look more like gray paint over spray than the more shiny zinc coating on the rest of the pieces. I'm not sure what to do with them at this point. I guess I may have to re-do them or if someone has a home system that can do a few parts for me perhaps that is another option.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/zinc_parts_1.jpg)
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/zinc_parts_2.jpg)
mmmmmmmmm....jewellery 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
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Well I got tired of trying to get my hands on some DuliColor DE1612 Engine Primer here in Canada so as per the company I went with their CSP-100 High Temp Primer. It's a bit darker than the DE1615 Paint so hopefully I won't get any chips or nicks during assembly. :-\
Pretty straight forward but as MarkB said, this part of the job is very time consuming if you want the paint to stay on. A painter once told me, It's not the paint, it's all in the prep! I still think the paint has a bit to do with it! ;)
So after de-greasing the cases we had to get the old paint and other impurities cleaned off. I didn't trust sending my prefect "748" cases out so I chose to do them myself. My weapon of choice, the Speed Blaster hand held sand blaster. This product worked amazingly well off my small 10 gal home compressor! I'm impressed and wish I had bought one long ago! I bought some very fine aggregate from my local Napa Store and Bob's your Uncle! They cleaned up great and with little or no "cutting away" as they call it, of the substrate material.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/speed_blaster_700.jpg)
So here's a shot of the upper case (nice VIN! ;D ) all blasted, blown out with compressed air, high pressure washer, rinsed in dish soap and water, clean water rinse, and blown out with compressed air again to ensure all sand is out! I'm a bit paranoid when sandblasting engine components.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/VIN_prepped.jpg)
Finally after a lot more prep taping off the cases and giving a final wipe with some Acetone we have the painted cases. 2 coats of Duli-Color CSP-100 primer and 2 coats of DupliColor DE1615 Paint. After 3 hours drying time in the oven it goes at 200 degrees or so. Good thing my wife is at work! ;D Now, onto the lower case!
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/top_case_painted.jpg)
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Bee-u-tee-ful !
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Thanks Steve. I finally feel like I'm getting somewhere. After buying and prepping so many pieces, getting the black parts painted, and soon the engine cases we should be engine building before long. :) I forgot I had to order some M8 Form B Washers so I got those ordered today. Have lots of new M6's so we will be in good shape to put the bottom end and cases together when they arrive. I decided to go with stainless washers. The dimensions are exact to the original zinc Form B washers. Again, thanks to MarkB for the tip on those.
Funny how you start to go over stuff in your head at this point. Are the black parts the correct gloss, am I missing parts to proceed with this part of the build, etc. etc. I guess you find out as you go! ;)
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That's significant progress Wayne. It's fun to see you making some headway.
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Great job.
Also i.ve purchased the speed blaster and await to receive.
Great paint, very shining.
Dont miss time, go to paint the lower case, your wife is on the way of return! ;)
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That's a good bit of advice on the washers. I've always had mine zinc plated but on occasion I have had to get the magnet out to establish a SS washer from a Zinc plated one. Once the bolt is on you would never know. I'll do that next resto KP
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Getting things all ready to put the bottom end together. Went through the oil pump, new seals etc. Thanks Ash for the 46 ID x 2mm section VITON 'O' seals. All back together and looking good so on to dropping some pieces into the crankcases! :) Slowly but surely we are getting there.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/oil_pump.jpg)
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It's been a while so I thought I better chime in before you guys thought I gave up! ;) Came down with the flu and bad cold for weeks. Really set me back and I didn't do much. Mainly checking my list of "to do's" plus gathering and searching for parts. I'm doing a Harley ironhead Bobber for a guy that has to be completed by April 15th, so again my time will be limited on 576. I have come to the conclusion that it's probably better to go slow and learn anyway. Pic's will be posted as soon as I get going again!
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Well, where Mark felt his frame was too glossy, I have come to the conclusion mine is too flat. It's very well painted but more like semi gloss. I have decided it's going to have to be done again. I would hate in the event I decide to sell 576 down the road that the buyer would have to take this bike down and re-do the frame a second time to get it closer to the 90% gloss that seems to be the consensus.
I found this product that is pretty close at 85% gloss. The fellow that did the Triumph trophy frame achieved outstanding results in my opinion. I don't see why good results can't be achieved from high quality rattle can paint with some care and a clean environment to do the work. I may order some of this stuff up before I can no longer get it shipped to Canada due to regulation changes coming in. >:( Thoughts anyone?
http://www.eastwood.com/review/product/view/id/1506/ (http://www.eastwood.com/review/product/view/id/1506/)
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As long as the paint won't wash off with gas, oil or solvents, that's important.
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It looks very durable Steve. It's an improved formula of eastwoods original chassis black which was 85% gloss as well.
Improved resistance against corrosion, chips and scratches
Resists brake fluid, fuel and solvents
Matches OEM finish
Apply multiple coats without lifting
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I've used a various eastwood paints/coating products and been impressed with them. i note the words "improved resistance," "resists," Eastwood uses to describe the capablities of the paint. "resistance" makes it sound like the paint is vulnerable to fluid exposure. i guess i would want more info to know the product you plan to use is more than "resistant" to gas, oil and other fluids the paint could be exposed to. Would suck to have the paint's surface integrity affected or compromised by exposure to such fluids.
overall, from the probalby 30 or 40+ or so CB750 1969-76 frames i have seen, the original frame paint is always consistently glossy. i believe parts of the frame that are less than glossy are due to a less smooth finsih such as frame joint areas ornot as thick a coat in some areas versus others. i think it would be safe to say Honda applied a thicker coat on visible areas and a thinner coat on less visible areas.
my opinion, as best as i am capable of thinking things through, knowing little to nothing about 1969 Honda factory production, Honda did not intend a semi-gloss or satin finish to the paint applied on frame and ancillary parts. i say this for at least 2 reasons. 1. the paint on frames in most visible and less visible areas such as under the tank is surprisingly deep and glossy for paints used in that era. 2. even back then, there were different shades/hues/colors/sheens of black paints. the black Honda used for frame paint was the black Honda used. While Honda chose the color black to paint a number of their mc model's frames, i suppose Honda coujld have decided deliberately to select a less glossy color of black such as a satin or a semi-gloss, but my self i have a hard time believing that. I am sure Honda used a gloss black frame paint available in the day and Honda was not concerned about the shade or hue as long as the paint dried gloss black. Nor do i think assembly line painting of the frames alloowed for uniformity or thickness of coat like the industry technology is able to produce today
I'm not sure what the point of my ramblings are, probably that Honda ordered gloss black paint that happenend to not be "midnight" or "jet" or "coal" black nor was Honda's intent ot make the black paint more or less glossy. I suppose my other point is the paint product used by Honda in that era did not have the range of colors/shades/hues that modern paints have today. In the day, the paint honda used on the frames was no doubt Gloss Black.
Myself, in our attempts to replicate the original color/shade/hue/sheen it's easier to get it too shiny than too semi-shiny. The man who does my paints, i have had him duplicate black original paint; he left out the enhancers or whatever the ingredient was to make the extra high sheen/shine. thet result was as close to original as could. btw, "my" painter's shop burned to the ground in the High Park Fire we had for the last 3 weeks of June. 259 homes, 87,000 acres, one person died.
Why don't you have your painter shoot another coat of a shinier black, you already have a good base ?
i have not seen yet a restoration "exactly like original." Further, i believe it's impossible achieve "exactly like original," because a restoration is not original which happens only once. I appreciate and respect very much as close to original as possible resotrations. But, sometimes, i think it drives us a little more mad than we should alow ourselves to be driven. on the other hand, getting it as close to original is part of the fun and reward of restoring as evidenced by Mark's very fine 11mm stems !
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Steve, all very valid points. When I look at my frame it's a nice job. My painter is good. To compare gloss I personally shot 2 cards, one with semi gloss black and one with high gloss. (my research tells me high gloss black rattle cans are about 90% gloss) When I compare to my frame/black parts to the cards my parts/frame are closer to semi gloss...or satin. I know if i put it together like that I will be unhappy in the end. It will bother me forever and a day! I know I may or may not have the $$, time, patience or resources to make 576 as perfect as it should be but I want it to have a good foundation in the event I wind up selling it the new owner may just want to search out things like 28 Carb's. etc. etc. and not have to pull the bike apart again to fix what I know I can make better out of the chute. :)
So, I have to decide am I going to do it myself or have someone do it for me? I found these folks. They seem very knowledgeable and know exactly what I'm talking about with respect to the correct gloss, look etc. for the vintage.
http://www.precisionmotorcyclepainting.com/about_us/classic_motorcycle_photos.asp?Item=244 (http://www.precisionmotorcyclepainting.com/about_us/classic_motorcycle_photos.asp?Item=244)
On the other hand, to your point that the paint probably wasn't very consistent back then so why not rattle can it with a good high quality paint?? It appears the lad who posted his frame with the Eastwood product was very happy and got great results. If I do it myself then it's just me responsible for the outcome. Sometimes that approach just works better for me.
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Wayne, if the paint won't degrade being exposed to gas, oil or brake fluid, sounds like a good approach.
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While cleaning up and assembling the final drive shaft it became apparent to me that something didn't seem right. I didn't recall ever taking the plug washer etc. off for the chain oiler?? I poked through the shaft and out came the felt, and that was it. I went through everything, I have no oiler pieces! (I was going to pug it anyway) Is it possible that this bike ran with only the felt in without losing fairly large amounts of oil. I wish I had taken a side pic of the engine during disassembly but I think this pic shows the sprocket intact and the oiler plug is not present??
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/oiler.jpg)
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I'll try to answer this question best i can. Please anyone else share what you know or if this in incorrect or incomplete.
Not counting the final driven shaft, there are five parts that make up the early version of the chain oiler that came with these bikes.
There was enough concern on this issue by Honda, that two Service Bulletins were issued about this particular chain oiler. I'll try to keep this as 'unwordy' as i can, for the sake of clarity.
Service Bulletin #5 discusses drive chain lubrication adjustment and lists the six parts including the final driven shaft, which make up the chain oiler. The parts referred to in SB #5, are the same parts which can be seen on pages 44-47 of the first printings of the CB750 Parts Manuals.
Before discussing the oiler adjuster, on end of driven shaft (opposite counter shaft sprocket) bolted to crankcase is the "final drive shaft oil guide," or, if you will, splash pan. Oil lying in crankcase went into this "guide" pan, then passing through the drive shaft, thru the felt element and out a hole in shaft to sprocket and chain. If your felt element was inside the shaft but there was no final shaft plug, i suppose it's safe to say there was not enough pressure in the crankcase to push out the felt element and/or you were just lucky the felt element did not come out on it's own. Seems, if i recall correctly, the felt element was sort of a tight fit, but not that tight. This felt element is really nothing more than a sort of porous plug.
Anyway, speaking of the actual oil flow adjuster, there originally was a 1.5mm shim (#27, pn 90443-500-000) washer which held the final shaft plug in a set position, thereby pressing against the felt oil element, inside the final driven shaft, intended to allow only a certain amount of oil to leak thru the felt element, then thru the hole in the final driven shaft and onto the outside of the shaft, spinning the oil onto the sprocket and the chain. SB #5 discusses replacing the 1.5mm washer with a 1mm washer to decrease oil flow or add an "substitute" shim washers of different ticknesses to the 1.5mm washer to increase flow. Use of these different thickness washers was intended to more or less compress the felt element in an attempt to control oil flow thru the felt element flowing out the hole in the final driven shaft.
Service Bulletin #22 refers not only to a different thickness washer but also a "modified oil reserve element" to attempt to control oil flow out the hole in the driven shaft. I've not done enough research to know if there were part numbers for the shims that were different sizes from the 1.5mm shim. SB #22 states this different thickness washer and modified element are to be used on engine numbers before 10,915.
Then, there is SB #17 which discusses adjustment of an entirely new chain oiler adjuster, beginning engine number 26,144. I may be mistaken, but i believe this new chain oiler had a different driven shaft, making the new oiiler adjuster not interchangeable with early felt type.
The K1 parts book shows the early and the later (as noted in SB #17) chain oiler adjuster. In the K1 parts book, i don't see any mention of the different thickness washers nor the "modified element" as noted in SB's #5 or #22.
The original chain oilers were a challenge to adjust properly and keep adjusted. They allowed an oil puddle to form when the bike was parked on the sidestand. With time, the felt would allow more or less leakage or none at all; usually not the case. Honda came out with the longer (55mm) chain guard to deflect the oil to the ground instead of up the rider's or passenger's back. SB #22 mentions all frame numbers before 21,880 could have the "modified" guard installed free of charge.
Writing this, i do remember, again, my rolled up sleeping bag, bungeed to the passenger portion of the seat, getting oil on it, during my trip out and back to California, May 1970.
These chain oil adjusters were nothing more than an attempt to control a deliberately designed engine oil leak.
Would be interested to know if Mark's E100 retains it's early adjuster.
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Well, I have realized I have A.S.S. (anal sandcast syndrome) so I decided I had to strip my black painted parts and re-do them. I'm glad I did! I found a hole in the frame cross section between the main stand supports I never noticed before. :( It must have blown through when it was sandblasted and my painter missed it as well.
I just want to make sure before I fill it in that there isn't supposed to be some type of hole there for whatever reason?? Drain hole etc?
I used Tal Strip II to strip the paint from the frame this time. It did an amazing job of stripping the single stage urethane paint and epoxy primer all in one shot. Great stuff!
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/frame_hole.jpg)
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My name is Mark and I have A.S.S. too. :P There, I feel better just saying it. I did the same thing a while back with my paint and I felt better then too. I keep thinking if I do things like that I will get all better but I am starting to wonder. ::)
Not sure I can help you with the hole. I don't ever remember seeing one in that location. If no one chimes in I'll go take a look at mine.
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OH, now look what I started! ;D ;D ;D
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A.S.S...... that's good. Step One; We admitted we were powerless over A.S.S. and our A.S.S. was unmanageable ;D We shouild come up with some jokes.... :) "How many A.S.S.es does it take to... ? "What did one A.S.S. say ot the other A.S.S..... ?"
4363 frame, one of the down tubes had a 'string' of holes, larger to smaller, looked like where there had perhaps been a bad ground during the welding process ? The holes were tear drop shaped, about 6-7 of them, largest was not quite the size of a match head, smallest was size of a pin head.
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Anyone else wanna throw their 2 cents in before I close this hole up? While on the subject of frame holes, I could have sworn I read somewhere that there was a bulletin on drilling drain holes in the lower frame rails to prevent rotting. For some reason I thought 576 had them but it doesn't. I was thinking of shooting some "Rust Check" in those holes after paint, but they don't exist! Must have been a dream...or a vision! ;D
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Well, I did it! I decided the black parts weren't satisfactory from a gloss standpoint so I stripped everything and did them again myself. If you do it yourself I guess you have nobody to blame BUT yourself? ;) My painter did an excellent job as far as laying the paint on nice, it was just the level of gloss I wasn't 100% happy with. I bought Eastwoods Extreme Chassis Black High Gloss (80% gloss) with their epoxy primer made just for the product and went to work. After stripping the parts and cleaning well I shot the expoxy primer. You have to be careful with this stuff. It's as thin as water...but that's good as it keeps it thin. Only one coat is necessary. After 24 hours you can shoot the paint. I was AMAZED at the results I got from this paint. The only thing you have to watch is overspray. You have to work fast, you can't do sections or the overspray will come through as charcoal gray flecks on the next coat. After a few coats the parts looked great! I'll try and get a pic of the frame posted. I can't seem to do it justice indoors with my camera for some reason. I'll take it outside later and see how it turns out. :)
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/centre_stand_new.jpg)
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As you know I had a problem with my paint too only I thought mine was too glossy. But I know exactly how you feel. It's such a major part of the restore that you want to get it right. It's next to impossible to get good pics of the black parts but it looks good to me. I'm happy it worked out for you.
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OK, tried a couple of frame pic's...still inside. My wife isn't too thrilled about them being in front of the fireplace in the downstairs family room but she understands they need to be "baked" for a while! ;)
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/frame_full_new.jpg)
Color is a bit off in this shot. You will have to believe me, it's black!
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/frame_neck_new.jpg)
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That looks great Wayne, your wife is understanding letting you bring it in the house, i have completely taken over the outside of my house , but she wont let me in the house with bike bits, saying that she has no idea there is two bikes in the roof space
Pete
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Lucky number "8" makes another appearance! I don't recall noting this earlier. After stripping and spraying a thin coat of epoxy primer on my swing arm another "8" was staring me right in the face. As you can see it's a stand alone number "8". Perhaps my Daughters friend is correct that the Japanese just believed that 8's were lucky and would bring success and good fortune with this endeavor???
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/swing_arm_8.jpg)
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Lucky number "8" makes another appearance! I don't recall noting this earlier. After stripping and spraying a thin coat of epoxy primer on my swing arm another "8" was staring me right in the face. As you can see it's a stand alone number "8". Perhaps my Daughters friend is correct that the Japanese just believed that 8's were lucky and would bring success and good fortune with this endeavor???
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/swing_arm_8.jpg)
That's possible. Eight is considered "prosperous" in Japanese culture. Good thing they aren't fours as those numbers signify death.
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I'll try to answer this question best i can. Please anyone else share what you know or if this in incorrect or incomplete.
Not counting the final driven shaft, there are five parts that make up the early version of the chain oiler that came with these bikes.
There was enough concern on this issue by Honda, that two Service Bulletins were issued about this particular chain oiler. I'll try to keep this as 'unwordy' as i can, for the sake of clarity.
Service Bulletin #5 discusses drive chain lubrication adjustment and lists the six parts including the final driven shaft, which make up the chain oiler. The parts referred to in SB #5, are the same parts which can be seen on pages 44-47 of the first printings of the CB750 Parts Manuals.
Before discussing the oiler adjuster, on end of driven shaft (opposite counter shaft sprocket) bolted to crankcase is the "final drive shaft oil guide," or, if you will, splash pan. Oil lying in crankcase went into this "guide" pan, then passing through the drive shaft, thru the felt element and out a hole in shaft to sprocket and chain. If your felt element was inside the shaft but there was no final shaft plug, i suppose it's safe to say there was not enough pressure in the crankcase to push out the felt element and/or you were just lucky the felt element did not come out on it's own. Seems, if i recall correctly, the felt element was sort of a tight fit, but not that tight. This felt element is really nothing more than a sort of porous plug.
Anyway, speaking of the actual oil flow adjuster, there originally was a 1.5mm shim (#27, pn 90443-500-000) washer which held the final shaft plug in a set position, thereby pressing against the felt oil element, inside the final driven shaft, intended to allow only a certain amount of oil to leak thru the felt element, then thru the hole in the final driven shaft and onto the outside of the shaft, spinning the oil onto the sprocket and the chain. SB #5 discusses replacing the 1.5mm washer with a 1mm washer to decrease oil flow or add an "substitute" shim washers of different ticknesses to the 1.5mm washer to increase flow. Use of these different thickness washers was intended to more or less compress the felt element in an attempt to control oil flow thru the felt element flowing out the hole in the final driven shaft.
Service Bulletin #22 refers not only to a different thickness washer but also a "modified oil reserve element" to attempt to control oil flow out the hole in the driven shaft. I've not done enough research to know if there were part numbers for the shims that were different sizes from the 1.5mm shim. SB #22 states this different thickness washer and modified element are to be used on engine numbers before 10,915.
Then, there is SB #17 which discusses adjustment of an entirely new chain oiler adjuster, beginning engine number 26,144. I may be mistaken, but i believe this new chain oiler had a different driven shaft, making the new oiiler adjuster not interchangeable with early felt type.
The K1 parts book shows the early and the later (as noted in SB #17) chain oiler adjuster. In the K1 parts book, i don't see any mention of the different thickness washers nor the "modified element" as noted in SB's #5 or #22.
The original chain oilers were a challenge to adjust properly and keep adjusted. They allowed an oil puddle to form when the bike was parked on the sidestand. With time, the felt would allow more or less leakage or none at all; usually not the case. Honda came out with the longer (55mm) chain guard to deflect the oil to the ground instead of up the rider's or passenger's back. SB #22 mentions all frame numbers before 21,880 could have the "modified" guard installed free of charge.
Writing this, i do remember, again, my rolled up sleeping bag, bungeed to the passenger portion of the seat, getting oil on it, during my trip out and back to California, May 1970.
These chain oil adjusters were nothing more than an attempt to control a deliberately designed engine oil leak.
Would be interested to know if Mark's E100 retains it's early adjuster.
Steve, your knowledge of these bikes never ceases to amaze me. Talk about detail! So as I mentioned my engine only had the felt and the felt setting washer in it. From the looks of the threads in the final shaft I would be surprised if there was ever anything else in there. Since I don't really want a functional chain oiler anyway I'm just going to block it. I was thinking of putting a set screw in place of the plug. Just have to figure out what the thread dimensions are. If the next owner wants to make it more "original" it's just a matter of adding the missing pieces. Thoughts?? Anyone know what thread that plug is?
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It's been a while so I thought I better post SOME progress! I almost have the bottom end together of the engine. Was just waiting on a couple of bearings which are now here so will get that done soon and post up some pic's.
Fighting the flu so I haven't been able to take too much on since Christmas. Went out yesterday and retrieved my alternator cover for a look and to see what work we had to do there to get it ready. It's in pretty decent shape and much to my surprise it has the "smooth" background behind the Honda logo. I understand this feature makes it a bit rarer than the standard thin lipped cover. :) And now the bad. (always bad with good) I could only get 3 of the 4 stator screws out. :( I'm going to have to drill the head off the last one and see if I can get it removed. Damn!
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/alt_cover_1.jpg)
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/alt_cover_2.jpg)
I have also been tossing around what to use for a wiring harness on 576. It has an 0400 harness but it's in tough shape, been cut into etc etc. I ordered in a 32100-300-050 Honda harness for a look and made some comparisons. We already knew about the 2 extra wires at the headlamp loom sleeve, no big deal there. Connector for connector, it looks good. The primary areas of concern are branches of the harness that are taped and not contained within a loom sleeve like the original.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/harness_2.jpg)
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/harness_1.jpg)
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/harness_3.jpg)
My intention was to find a harness and make it as close as possible to an 0400 harness. I made up a template to print off some loom tags with waterproof ink on vinyl, which I would then install in place of the newer tag.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/wiring_loom_400_tag.jpg)
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I thik it's fine to go with a new wiring harness especially if you plan on riding the bike vs. a museum piece. The old wiring has too much corosion and increases resistance for a consistent charge and reliable electrics. My 256 has a rough harness as well and I think it's beyond saving and I'll use a new one. I've used new on my k1 and the peace of mind is worth it. Those alternator screws can be tough. I assume you've tried an impact driver? Good luck and hope you feel better.
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My machinist was able to get the screw out of my Alternator Cover without a problem and no damage! :) Whew! So, on to some cleanup and to try and see what lay under what was left of some of the original clear coat. I was hoping from that I could finally set a direction on how I would finish out my aluminum engine components.
First I de-greased, washed the cover and cleaned it up a bit with Never Dull. I chose never dull as it's a corrosion remover and my thinking was it may not polish out the original buffing lines from the factory. (wishful thinking?) Anyway, here's what it looked like after cleanup. Still a good bit of clear to the left of the boss for the stator screw.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/alt_1.jpg)
Another shot showing clear in a non finished or visible area wen installed.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/alt_2.jpg)
This shows the clear coat removed. Again, to the left of the stator screw boss you can see where I have now removed the clear coat. My objective was to match that area. I sanded to the right of the boss with 1000 and then 2000 grit wet sandpaper. It seemed to give me the lines I was looking for but appeared more brushed, duller than the patch that was under the original clear coat. Again, I just used Never Dull as it's non abrasive (I think) and gently polished the area until I got a close match. (right of stator screw boss) The sanding lines still show through and match the untouched portion of the cover pretty closely. I cleaned it with some metal prep to ensure it would retain the same appearance prior to applying clear coat.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/alt_3.jpg)
This is the 'from 2 feet shot". I think it is what I'm looking for. SO, now that I have my technique down it's time to remove the bad pits, scratches and get these pieces finished! ;D I guess slow progress is better than none!
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/alt_4.jpg)
Just cotton wadding and some pretty smelly, oily stuff. ???
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/never_dull.jpg)
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Looks like you have mastered the original finish Wayne, your in for some man hours now doing all the various covers, i should really make a start on mine, but need to get back that enthusiasm i was on a roll with before christmas
Pete
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Looks like you have mastered the original finish Wayne, your in for some man hours now doing all the various covers, i should really make a start on mine, but need to get back that enthusiasm i was on a roll with before christmas
Pete
Arrrr! too many Speckled Hens I suspect :D
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Arrrr! too many Speckled Hens I suspect :D
??? Another Aussie phrase that I don't know the meaning of.
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(http://www.templewines.co.uk/images/Blowup_JPG_IMAGES/speckled_hen_ale_bottle.jpg)
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Send me a case of that Pete! ;D ;D ;D
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:D :D :D Ah, now I get it!
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Not an Ozzie saying that one. A brand of beer sold in the UK. In fact it was the beer I liked to drink when I was there Not sure what the local lads think of it but it was on tap in most of the pubs I went to and a tasty drop I might add. ;D
OK I missed the post from Pete. Anyway that's it ............... and goooooooooood stuff
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Yes a couple of bottles of this and you certainly know about it, it is an aquired taste though but if your in to real ales then this is a good one,
anyway sorry the thread seems to be going off subject
Pete
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Darn it! Forgot the oil pan bolts and a few other little items when I had my zinc plating done. I'll have to see if I can get a a small batch done at a reasonable cost. On the up side, got the kick start gear, flange and return spring installed! :) After a few frustrating attempts I walked away from it for a minute, came back and tried once more. Seemed to just slide together! I guess it's all in the way you hold your mouth! ;D Case halves should be back together soon! I think they miss each other after all this time! :)
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Very cool, Wayne ! Nice to have things going back together !
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Well it's a good day here in the great white north! :) It's warm, sunny and my engine cases are back together!! ;D As I said in another thread I decided to go with Permatex MotoSeal 1 - Ultimate Grey for my sealer. It says to apply, brush an even layer, let it sit for a minute mate up the cases. Well. I can tell you that getting it on all the surfaces and getting a nice even layer, being careful around main bearing etc. takes a few minutes so hopefully it hold well. It seems to dry pretty fast but I got just a wee tad of "squish out" that I can see on the perimeter of the cases, so fingers crossed!
Thanks to Mark I found myself being somewhat anal when it came to preparing to bolt things up. I even rinsed my sockets out with Brake Kleens before I used them! Didn't want anything to mar up those shiny re-zinc'd fasteners. :) Also, I went with Mark's idea of using stainless "form B" washers on the 6 and 8 mm engine case bolts. (except the 2 on the rear that have nuts) These washers are the exact dimensions of the originals and are the same thickness. (form B washers are thinner than a standard washer. Again, thanks for the tips Mark. Keep em' coming!
OK, so here she is. Bottom end back together! :)
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/engine_cases_complete_top.jpg)
A shot of the V.I.N. area.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/engine_compete_top_vin.jpg)
And the rear of the engine.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/engine_complete_rear.jpg)
Just need a buddy to help me flip it and get it supported so I can work on the oil pan etc. Wish I haden't forgot to zinc those bolts! :( (and a few other odds and ends!)
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Looking good wayne. i lookforward to seeing more
Pete
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They sure look purdy when they're all cleaned up. I always consider this step a good milestone. ;)
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Beautiful !
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Wayne very nice clean looking cases, EXCELLENT job. The vin number pad looks sweet with all those "0" on it. Marty K.
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Is my oil pump in that nice shiny engine, Wayne?
Joe K.
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You bet it is Joe and that pump was almost like new. :) Much better than my original. Thank you.
Probably a good time to say thank you to a few on this board who have assisted me, helped me with parts and are the true "sandcast enthusiasts", not out for profit or fame. You know who you are. Thank you for your contributions to 576 thus far. :)
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I had been wondering about whether or not I should install the dual disc setup that came with and has been on 576 for as long as I can remember. After some research and ultimately contacting Vic World I got to the bottom of it's origin. Based on the history it will stay with the bike as I do have all of the parts. :) Here's the info Vic supplied. Thanks again Vic!
Back in late1972/ early '73, Yoshimura Racing, then located in Southern Calif., had by then expanded their catalog of racing parts for Hondas to include dual caliper disc kits (disc, longer bolts, dual lower brake line, caliper bracket, modified speedo drive, etc.) produced by their sidebar manufacturing division, then known as Checkered Flag Customs (CFC).
Some of CFCs parts were made of cast magnesium (to save weight), such as your bracket.
As well they offered some very nice cast magnesium fork legs for the 500s and 750s.
See foto attached of the catalog page showing your bracket..
Thanks again,
Vic
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/cfc_cat_image_750.jpg)