Honda CB750 Sandcast
The Restoration Shop => Chrome - Anodizing and Other Metal Finish Procedures => Topic started by: kp on February 17, 2010, 07:04:05 pm
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Hello all, It's been a while. I've been to the south pole shovelling snow and all that. Now if you believe that you been smokin tooooo much. Hmmm!. Anyways, who has got the latest on re-anodosing, anodising or painting brake master cylinders & switches. Has anybody had any more info on the correct finish of these parts or has anybody done a reanodise yet. This topic was discussed some time back and concensus was that the jury is still out. Can ANYONE shed some light on this subject. I was telling Steve yesterday that I've tried to strip the black off a master cylinder without success so it aint paint. And fellas, how was the Ohio meet ............. bargains everywhere KP :)
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Mid-Ohio wasn't as big and exciting as previous years- smaller crowds, less special events, real bottom-feeding when it came to parts. Weather (and ebay's influence) had something to do with this. I spotted Vince Ciotti's very early red sandcast, the lowest serial # example I've ever seen in person. Nice original bike. As for bargains, I've had a booth at the swapmeet for several years. On Friday morning when I returned from a 5 minute walk, I discovered that my perfect original 1969 CB750 ducktail seat was missing, and it was not left on the table for sale, it was behind the counter. Somebody spotted it and had the gall to offer the NEXT DOOR VENDOR'S 15 year old kid $60 for it and promptly ran off with it. If that person reads this and has any conscience, please contact me to return it and get your $60 back. Maybe he doesn't realize he commited a felony according to Ohio law, but that won't happen if its returned. Anybody know anything about this, please email, no questions asked: detail@optonline.net
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I hear the rain was a tattle tale on bikes with bare metal on them. Makes me want to send some parts to be zinked even more than before.
I think the verdict is anodize for original finish but that it can't be restored as re-anodizing low grade cast aluminum will leave pits. I'll be powder coating mine and wishing to find NOS at some time in the future.
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The original finish is without doubt black anodizing. Attempts to replicate it by re-anodizing here in the UK have not resulted in an acceptable finish. Health and safety issues have also resulted in most jobbing platers closing - the few left are high tech concerns, who will not usually take on auto restoration work.
Personally I have resorted to the use of paint (PJ1 "Satin black case paint") rather than powder coat. If the unit is rubbed down with fine grade emery paper, sprayed with both paint and unit at 70°F or more, allowed to cure for a couple of weeks, and finally lightly polished with a fine grade metal polish, then a very durable and close to original appearance can be achieved. The m/cylinder on 1005298 has travelled over 50,000 miles now in all weather and bug-splatter conditions with no chipping or fading. Just my solution to the issue until a supply of NOS units turns up.
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New reproduction early style master cylinders appear on eBay sometimes, I bought one, can't tell any difference other than the cap has lettering (sub a correct cap, have it powder-coated satin black) and the brake line bolt hole is larger diameter (which had me scratching my head trying to figure out a solution).
Powder coating an old m/s satin black seems the best solution.
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The handle bar parts are annodized. The problem we've had with re annodizing is removing the original finish as it is impregnated into the metal. Even totally faded parts are hard to re annodize. My friend Dave Vizzozi from Phila. ,master plater ,is working on this now. He has done tons of Nickle,cadmium and chrome for us Indian collectors and is now working on correct Honda annodizing. Results so far have been inconsistant by his standards, but pretty good by mine. Powder coating at a low gloss back is probably easier than re annodizing and who would know the difference.
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Hi Guys
I've been talking by email to Steve and he sent this web link which is a facinating, if not comprehensive, further read on the subject.
http://www.focuser.com/atm/anodize/anodize99.html.
Good to see you on tha case Eli and I would hope you keep us posted as I have a number of items that are in good order but faded to a clear colour, with black under and clear on top. Any reanodising would be a bonus to me albeit for only a few items.
As for powdercoat, it is one of several alternatives. I personally have found powdercoat a little on the thick side for some applications. Its main advantage is it's durability over a general paint application, however if one does use good product and can add a baking element to the process, durability is less of a problem as Chris R has indicated. Oh well, looks as if we'll have to await a solution.
On a different note, Eli mentioned Cad plating. Has anyone had any heat shields done by the Texas platers as yet. I've been waiting for some further info on this so any advances KP
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Posted by Vince Ciotti "Guest"
This is Vince Ciotti with the cherry sandcast and low Vin # (374) you saw at Mid-Ohio. Thanks for the compliment. Wow, sorry to hear about the seat theft! If you have any distinguishing marks, I'll keep an eye on E-bay and other sources for you. I was afraid to leave my bike sitting in the VJMC club booth for just this reason. Luckily, I had no parts disappear, but I sure am worried in the future...
Appreciate the thread on anodizing as mine is starting to ttrun grey too and whenever anyone figures out how to resotre it, I'm buying!This is Vince Ciotti with the cherry sandcast and low Vin # (374) you saw at Mid-Ohio. Thanks for the compliment. Wow, sorry to hear about the seat theft! If you have any distinguishing marks, I'll keep an eye on E-bay and other sources for you. I was afraid to leave my bike sitting in the VJMC club booth for just this reason. Luckily, I had no parts disappear, but I sure am worried in the future...
Appreciate the thread on anodizing as mine is starting to ttrun grey too and whenever anyone figures out how to resotre it, I'm buying!
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Just a little tip for these things.
Make sure you don't cut the on of switch circuit for tear down. You are going to have to re-shrink the wires anyways so just unwrap them and pull the two wires all the way out throgh the switch hole. I actually broke my switch circuit plate figuring this one out but got a new one with wires attached from a donor switch.
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Hello from New Zealand.
I know this thread goes back to 2010 but has there been any progress
with the powder-coating versus anodizing question?
1.) That is, is there a solution to the pitting problem of the anodizing on old aluminium controls?
2.) Also, should the parts be gloss black or satin black?
I'm taking off my controls and brake master cylinder this week and would like to make some progress so any help would be appreciated.
Thanks, TC
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Hello of France,
For the master brake cylinder = satin black
Gerard
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Merci beaucoup.
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Hello from New Zealand.
I know this thread goes back to 2010 but has there been any progress
with the powder-coating versus anodizing question?
1.) That is, is there a solution to the pitting problem of the anodizing on old aluminium controls?
I'm taking off my controls and brake master cylinder this week and would like to make some progress so any help would be appreciated.
Thanks, TC
hot caustic soda around 200 degrees removes the anodize.
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When you re-anodize, make sure you have them done with the "chromic" method. This is what Honda did in 1969. The more modern sulfuric method will not produce the same results (it will be far too matte in appearance). I did chromic anodizing on my controls for #410 and they turned out to be a dead-perfect match to my NOS controls.
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I wish I would have know this before. I had some parts done twice with what I have now found out was the sulfuric method. The first time they told me they didn't turn out because they didn't polish them before anodizing. After seeing your post I talked to them and they don't do the chromic method. It was hard enough to find anyone in my area that would even consider doing motorcycle parts. Back to square one. :(
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Mark,
Contact me and I can send you to my chromic anodizer. Can also give you some tips on metal prep if you need them (doubt you do though!).
Sam
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email sent.
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The flat finish on used parts is due to their being re-anodised as the stripping of the old anodise renders the pre treatment finish non-glamorous. A simple polishing after the re-anodising process renders a nice satin finish. New alloy should always anodise well regardless of method
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Sulfuric anodizing came out looking wrong. Perhaps it could have been polished.
Chromic anodizing of the same part with the same level of polish prior to anodizing came out perfect.
Very different results.
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Hi Sam
Mate I wasn't disputing anything you wrote My post was to tell those that had a dull outcome on their anodising that all is not lost. Simply polish your dull finish and a good outcome should be the result. The better method you wrote about is great news for everyone and I would like you to post which company you use. I've just had a bunch of anodising done by a long established firm. The new items came out superb but the used items were as dull as a Mills and Boon novel.
Mark, I've sent you a few items and I think you will be happy with the finish
KP
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KP,
Totally understand. Wasn't offended at all; was just trying to clarify my experience. I'll try polishing my next batch of sulfur anodized parts. I appreciate your advice.
Here's a pic of my results. The master cylinder and right controls were chromic anodized. The left control is NOS.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/351/18375394938_ce69332f5c_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/tZLGJ7)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8871/18563189875_6932e03df5_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/uhncBR)
Happy to share the company that did these for me:
Sanford Metal Processing
990 OBrien Dr
Menlo Park CA 94025
United States
+1 (650) 327-5172
I gave them polished parts.
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Very nice !
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Mark, I've sent you a few items and I think you will be happy with the finish
Thanks, I got them. ;D ;D ;D
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I've found a company in New Zealand who will do the chromic for me. They are a high-tech aviation business so I was surprised they have agreed to do it. I'm sure they will polish the parts if it needs to be done as they have a huge reputation in the industry as surface treatment experts. Note that I have used a product called Rub 'N Buff Mandarin to highlight the red text on the controls. What is the correct color/paint? I'll post up "after" pictures when I get them done. The biggest worry for me is how to get all the wires back in correctly so that when I indicate left I don't go onto high beam or kill the engine ;D
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My Chomic Anodized parts are back. They look pretty good in normal light but in bright light the color is black with a grey hue. The came as matt black and I just put a mop on a drill lightly on them to put a bit of a shine on.