Honda CB750 Sandcast
The Restoration Shop => Fuel (gas - petrol) Tanks, Side Covers and Air Box => Topic started by: Steve Swan on February 17, 2010, 10:39:31 am
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HELLO ALL - This is from KP McGovern: "I am told, and who knows the real truth, not all sandcasts and early K0s came with wrinkles. There is a guy here in Oz who bought the first CB750 sold in Oz. He claims his bike was never fitted with a wrinkle tank. The second owner (who bought it from original owner less than a year from new) sold it to Tom Courtney and claims it still has the same tank on it when he bought it from the original owner. The sandcast I just bought is claimed to have all original fittings including airbox and a non-wrinkle tank. Have you ever come across this 'legend'."
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Well, whaddya expect from a place with things like platypuses, kangaroos and man-eating spiders?
Me thinks KP been pouring Fosters in his tank too much.
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I think that Australi got sandcast models that were # 6000 or higher. Maybee the wrinkle tank was being phased out by then.
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Posted by "Guest", Bob Brooks
What Vin# range are these first OZ Bikes, They used wrinkles into diecast production for several thousand units as well as a lot of other parts. Nobody wants to admit that a tank was replaced if it is going to greatly affect the value in a sale situation. I have bought several bikes of all types from original owners that claim their bikes were never wrecked, yet they had repaired fork stops, bent forks and frames!
I know a New Car Dealer Painter, and he admits that even brand new cars are touched up if they are damaged in transit, and nothing is ever mentioned to the eventual buyer.
It's possible the tanks were even replaced by the dealer before the sale if somehow they got a scratch, dent etc.
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I think I like Bob Brooks' answer. I also have a production 69 diecast VIN 1011970 and this bike has a wrinkle tank. This is the original tank as the whole bike is in the same stock condition as when it was delivered from the dealer including frontn tyre. There weren't many sandcast bikes delivered in Oz, a few in the 1XXX, a few in the 5XXX and a few in the late 6XXX. Nevertheless, the climate is such that rusty tanks are a fact of life here and methinks the bike concerned may have had a tank change at some time. I cannot say this with any guarantee as I haven't seen the actual bike, but I will see it one day and I may then be in a better position to have an opinion. As for Fosters A.M., I don't do fosters; it's swill beer Speaking of the wife, she says "Why do you spend so much time with your bikes?" I says "the bike's a better ride"(hee hee hee) KP ;)
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Awhile back before I got into sandmaddness, somebody posted an "auction" on ebay just to post pictures of the 2 different wrinkle tanks. Seems to me that the bottom near the rear on one did not have those 2 little round flat spots onh each side. Anybody shed some light on different style wrinkle tanks? True/false, when if true?
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I saw an auction of a wrinkle tank just recently. The claim of the sale was that this wrinkle tank was specific to only the first few hundred sancast bikes. The seller claimed that this tank had a slightly larger volume than later sandcast tanks. I viewed the picture of the bottom and could not tell it appart from the bottom of the two tanks I had at the time. I still have a print out of that tank to see if I can make out what this seller was talking about. Now I have to go look at it again. Thanks alot.
I have seen some claims of other wrinkle tanks that dont have the extra volume areas, and do have the controled pressed in areas of non wrinkle tanks. I think some people have the idea that those diagonal control marks pressed into non wrinkle tanks qulify the tank as being wrinkled.
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The 1st generation of very early wrinkle tanks (under serial #400 or so) interfered w/ the #1 and #4 throttle cables so Honda squished the tank in a bit right above the carb caps which resulted in a little less volume of gas.
If certain folks down under drink less Fosters, they'll have a little less volume of gas, too.
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;D - heh, heh - give that platypuss eater hell, Andy !
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c'mon Steve, be nice, leave his ol' lady out of this!
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Posted by "Guest" elisant1
As a collector and restorer of other brand bikes I've found the only logical answers are always financial. I don't know when wrinkle tank production stopped. From the anicdotle evidence I've seen it's the mid to low teens. I can see a wrinkle tank maybe getting lost in the shuffle and be seen on a later tank. I just don't believe non wrinkles ever came off the line on sandcasts. Company's tend to use all of their inventory. I really doubt they would be manufacturing from 2 sources at the same time. Or saving the wrinkle tanks for later bikes. Companies use present stock first. Dealers would replace defective,damaged parts,etc... with what was on hand. This has been going on since the first cars and bikes were built. Dealers had no eye toward collectability. Just profits. I bet most dealers and all consumers at the time didn't know wrinkle from wankle. Have any of you sandcast experts ever come across NOS wrinkle tanks? I'd be surprised if many spare wrinkle tanks were ever delivered, as it seems Honda was having a hard enough time keeping up with production at that point. Paint is usually the slow point in production. There were very early tanks made as Andy said that had more capacity. Were these ever recalled? I restore old HDs and Indians so have much more knowledge of them than Hondas. But companies never change,it's all about the dollar. First year, 1936, Knuckleheads went through many by the number changes. Early 36 would have many differences than late 36. Does this remind you of anything?
Andy, It's XXXX and some Grog that make the Aussies yearn for their girls. Or is the New Zealanders that can't be trusted with sheep. Us Yanks are to busy tipping cows. Gave one $5.00 the other night. Nothing!!!! ;) Eli ;)
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Could that early "non-wrinkle" tank have been a 19 liter tank? Here's a photo of one from this site. There are wrinkles on the bottom but not in the area where you would see them through the filler hole. I've got a separate post with a picture of a tank that I'm trying to confirm if its a 19 liter tank or not. There are no wrinkles looking in the filler hole.
(http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af311/mark1b/Sandy97/earlytank.jpg)
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That certainly looks like a 19 litre to me, whether or not it has wrinkles. I have to say that to me, from the picture it looks to have VERY faint wrinkles in the underside, even if they don't show through the top.
Wrinkle tanks definately fitted through into the die cast bikes - I have had them on 1008054, 1008612, 1010802, and even a 1015xxx bike (of course can't often be 100% that Honda put them there!).
My #5298 came to me in 1990 with what appeared to be its original tank (blue green exact match to fork ears and headlight shell), but no wrinkles on underside. So, what to conclude - in spite of its apparent originaility that probably that something happened early on in its life that lead to the tank being replaced with NOS.
Let the debate rage!
Cheers - Chris R.
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That certainly looks like a 19 litre to me, whether or not it has wrinkles.
The pic I posted is the 19 liter from this site. I started another thread with a picture of one that I'm trying to confirm is a 19 liter.
Mark
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Yep, somehow we seem to have more than one thread on the same subject with all the replies on this one. No matter - and yes, the "other" one looks to be a 19 litre to me. Could the wrinkles just be very faint on this one? There seems to be some "shadowing" in the paint on the underside, and plenty of rust on the inside. Nice find though.
Chris R.
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I have a 19 litre tank i can take some pics of its wrinkles are not as pronounced as later wrinkle tanks its original candy blue green, Tom
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The same with my 19L tank. For that reason I wasn't sure at first if it was the real thing. Maybe that's typical with those tanks.
Mark
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Here's a couple pics of my 19L tank. The wrinkles don't seem do be as pronounced as the later wrinkle tanks.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10002/DSC05541.JPG)
Here's a shot from the underside. Appears to be just two wrinkles.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10002/DSC05542.JPG)
Here's an overall shot showing that there are no dimples for the carb tops.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10002/DSC05543.JPG)
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Looks to be a repop wrinkle to me :o No problem though Mark. I'm happy to take it off your hands and give you a real wrinkle ;D The things I do ;)
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You guys are the best. ;)
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Hi guys,
I found this tank on a Dutch classified website and I am wondering if this a wrinkle tank or not? What's it worth? It's fresh painted.
(http://i.marktplaats.com/00/s/NzY4WDEwMjQ=/z/1DEAAOxydINSZ9kS/$T2eC16JHJIMFHJ)Z!!VTBSZ9kSUKfw~~60_85.JPG)
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Yes sir, it is. Did you buy it?
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thanks.
Not yet.
Do you know what's worth?
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thanks.
Not yet.
Do you know what's worth?
$500-$1000 depending on local supply/demand, maybe more? How nice is the paint job? Does it have badges and lower trim?
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Here's a couple pics of my 19L tank. The wrinkles don't seem do be as pronounced as the later wrinkle tanks.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10002/DSC05541.JPG)
Here's a shot from the underside. Appears to be just two wrinkles.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10002/DSC05542.JPG)
Here's an overall shot showing that there are no dimples for the carb tops.
(http://cb750sandcastonly.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10002/DSC05543.JPG)
I have a wrinkle tank as well from my #256 and the wrinkles seem less pronounced as you've mentioned. Maybe the earlier ones have that characteristic?
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The wrinkles on my 19L aren't as pronounced either.
Mark
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I know this is an old post.
I always assumed that my early 10/69 diecast must have had the tank replaced at the dealers as its non wrinkle, and the original owner told me it was like that from 'new' from the dealer. The fact that puzzles me though is that it had the 'Antimon' filler cap fitted and the riveted pivot part was peened over with no signs it had ever been changed (i.e. factory type peening over). Question is, would a new tank have a filler cap supplied with it or was it an extra part, as I think I have seen NOS tanks with the filler attached. If it was replaced and a later tank fitted surely it would have the later steel filler cap. The debate continues. I wonder why the tanks had wrinkes anyway, is it just that press forming a larger area than previous Honda tanks required that wrinkles be formed (largest Honda tank at that time was CB450K1 by my reckoning) .
Cheers ...Ash