Found A 1969 - What to Look For?

[Wayne]

My old friend is offering me his 69. I used to ride this bike in the later 70's. It has not been ridden since but I'm told the engine has been run as recently as summer 2009. I'm not sure what to offer him if it is a sancast model. As far as I know the only thing not original on the bike is the handlebars. It wil need a major resoration due to corrosion etc.

What should I look for on this bike to come to some kind of buying price?

I know to look for engine number between CB750 1000001 to CB750 1007414. I'l look for a "wrinkle" tank, cast gas cap? I'm told the exhaust is good and a candidate for re-chroming. Is there anything I should look for on the exhaust? Numbers etc?

Any help on putting a value on this piece (assuming it's a sandcast) would be appreciated. Other rare parts/features I should look for? I think I can pick it up for $2500.00 - $3000.00 Canadian. Thanks!

Oh, the bike has about 30,000 miles on it. Only a few more than when I used to ride it in the late 70's!

[Steve Swan]

Hi Bzzrd2

Sounds like you associate good memories with the bike, so the bike should be worth to you whatever the price you decide to pay.

If you would be so kind as to include your first name with your posts, that would be appreciated.

The reason we ask this, is so all of us who frequent this board can avoid the depersonalization of the cyber-age. We want to get to know each other on a first name basis, if nothing else than for the sake of virtual time commraderie.

For questions you have about sandcast features distinguishing from non-sandcast, you will be rewarded by doing a search of this BB as well as study the website. Many of your questions will be answered in just the past couple posts on this BB.

As a result of sharing on the BB the finds of your diligent study of your new bike and what you learn in comparison to what is in the website, we all learn and will virtually have a good time together in the real time of our individually looking at our monitor screens.

9-hole clutch cover is the hallmark identifier of sandcast crank cases.

Any non-sandcast "K0" that is complete and correct unless it is horrifically rusted, rotted or seized should be worth $2-3k.

Good Luck in your pursuit - keep us updated !

[Wayne]

Thanks Steve
I hope to get down and look at the bike soon. It's been a long time since I last laid eyes on it. Yes, I do have fond memories of riding it when I was younger. It was more reliable than the Brit bikes I was riding at the time so my friend was always willing to let me use it! I'll post my findings once I get down to view it.

[Steve Swan]

Wayne, Good luck !

[Wayne]

Well, I got down to look at the bike. Unfortunately I was not well prepared and the owner was not home so all I could do was get into his crammed little shed and gather what info I could. The bike has not been stored well, but it is not rotten. The tank is clean inside with no signs of rust. I couldn't check to see if it was siezed as the owner had it tight to the wall. The carb slides moved so I'm hoping the pistons will too. The wheels have light rust speckles and are candidates for re-chrome I believe. Same with the fenders. The mufflers have been changed to an aftermarket brand. (I remember now that the owner changed them out on a trip to Florida and left his originals behind) The front end has a dual disk setup which I'm assuming must be aftermarket as well. The gas cap itself felt loose but did latch. Couldn't get the frame number but I do know for sure that the engine and frame are a match as I know this bike's history. That's really all I could gather withough help and some light. I'm going back on Jan 17 2010. Hopefully I can be better prepared and better educated on the rarer items I should look for.

Lastly, I did get the engine number and I do know that nothing has ever been replaced on this engine other than the maintainance items.

CB 750E - 1000748

Oh yes. as I mentioned the handlebars are not Honda.

[Steve Swan]

Hi Wayne,

Your #748 engine vin is what would be considered an early production.

It's pretty much worth whatever you pay for it.

If it is all there other than exhaust, you are lucky. Correct early prod parts are nearly impossible to find.

If you are lucky enough to get the bike, THROW NOTHING AWAY.

Many of the parts on that early of a vin are unique to the vin.

[Wayne]

Thanks Steve. Like I said, as far as I know just the handelbars and mufflers were replaced. The header pipes don't even have any rust on them. He painted it some crap brown with flames but the tins and side covers etc. are in good shape from what I can see. I did forget to say, the air intake box is cracked. What about that dual disk setup on the front? Is it from an aftermarket or did Honda offer it on these bikes? I looked at a lot of sancast pictures and I don't see any with dual disk.

I'll make him an offer when I go down on Sunday. I hate to see something like this sitting, not properly stored. I'm not sure if I will restore it or sell it. I do custom builds, mainly Harley and Brit bikes. I don't know if I have the patience to do a restoration like this justice. I'll have to ponder it.

[cb7504]

Wayne:
Sounds like you have found an early production sandcast. If/when you get the sandcast what ever you decide to do sell or restore it is nice to know another piece of Honda history has been found. Marty K.

[Wayne]

I have gone through the site and picked out what I believe are the the crtical things to look for. The way I see it, even if the bike is only 90% original, it's a nice start for someone. If I don't take on the restoration you can be assured it will be offered up to people who will respect this old girl for what she is.

Thanks for your help so far folks. I'll post more details on the bike on Jan 17th or 18th.

[Steve Swan]

Handle bars can be purchsed from Honda.

So can exhaust, unless one wants to go to the more authentic Yamiya's.

The air box is most likely the early "2-hole" type, but would be interesting to know if upper half is the earlier no relief type or the later type w/ relief.

The brake hoses and oil lines are unique.

It may have the pointerless kill knob, the the brake fluid reservoir has no leveling line, as well as the short neck petcock and the narrow tongue upper triple clamp.

The list goes on......

[Wayne]

Got down to see the bike again and drug it out into some daylight. I'm a bit less optimistic about this old girl. She does need a lot of work. I couldn't see the air intake box as it was in the owners basement along with one side cover and a spare seat he has. He's a trucker and hard to catch at home. I wrote the frame number down but lost the paper! Just a bad day...from the pics it looks like:

Frame - 1000578
Engine - 1000742

It does have a few good pieces as you will see in the pics but also some bad ones such as the instrumentation. I was most disapointed to see a bent fin on the cylinders and a bent/cracked one on the head. No pieces missing but I have no idea if this is smething that can be repaired to look "correct". It is obvious it was caused through neglect in the tight shed and it's probably how the air intke box got cracked. The inside of the fuel tank is almost like new. The owner did say he put gas in it and ran it in August then drained the fuel. I now believe him as you will see where he put a bolt in the fuel line to seal it off rather than reconnecting it. As well, the engine kicks over beautifully which was nice to see. Compression feels good as I went slowly through all cylinders. I remembered the bike having around 30K miles. The odometer is reading 29K and change. I was probably the last to ride the bike somewhere around 1979 or 80! I wish I had of brought it home with me then. Hindsight is 20/20!

Any comments that would help on whether or not this is a viable purchase/project would be appreciated.

[Wayne]

More pics...

[Steve Swan]

Hi Wayne,

Be ye not discouraged nor faint of heart !

There is NOTHING that cannot be restored or brought back to original. All it takes is patience, time and money.

If you can handle a set of wrenches, we have the expertise to walk you through whatever the path you take.

This 41 year old bike is a low "matching" set of vins.

There is no such thing as bad pieces on an early sandcast.

Everything about this bike is good.

From a collector's standpoint, the 578/E742 combination is quite desirable. Well worth every penny of what you said the asking price to be.

In an attempt to squelch your doubt, anwering your question, "The bike is a very viable project, if you don't buy it, you'll miss a great purchase!"

If it were me, i would be "robbing the bank," or "selling a kid," so to speak !

The bent fins are no problem. Using MAP gas with a propane torch head, thoroughly heat up one fin at a time, using a pair of wide flat jawed electrical type pliers, you can move that fin back to it's original position. Once the aluminum is brought to a working temp, using a set of previously mentioned pliers, get a good grip, slowly exert pressure and you will feel the metal (fin) move slowly into place. The cracked fin should be able to be moved back to original position so as to not notice any glaring defect. A good welder can replace broken fins.

Neither my 232 or 4363 were as good condition as this bike. There are many approaches you can take to getting it back on the road, anywhere from making it all correct and road worthy to a full restoration. You can always make it road worthy, enjoy it in it's unrestored condition, buy and save up parts for a restoration at a later date.

Appears to have wrong kill switch (red knob.) Funky horn.

Has a 17 litre tank. Smooth ferrule oil lines. Ringless brake reservoir. Short ring nuts on gauge cable. RH mirror stem appears rare 11mm.

Dual disc brake is original parts, really a desirable setup.

I would not hesitate for a moment to buy the bike. Tell the owner what it will take to make the bike road worthy, what it is missing to make it complete and strike a deal !!!!

If you decide against it, post the owner's contact information so a club member can buy it.

Or, buy it to sell and realise a nice profit.

The bike deserves to be kept whole and saved before it rots into oblivion.

For God's sakes man, buy it, before someone robs it out of your back yard !!!!

If you truly decide the project is not for you, at least have a hand in making sure the bike gets a good home with a clubmember.

This bike deserves more than what it is getting now.

[Wayne]

Thank you Steve
I do consider myself a pretty good wrench. I have been desricbed by others a a "wizard" when it comes to anything technical but if there was ever a humble guy, I'm it. I guess I just needed to hear what you had to say. The bent fin and crack had me most worried. I do have a friend who has a machine shop with expert metal tech's and welders. The did a nice job modifying a case and reinforcing critical areas on a custom Triumph I'm building. (old pot metal cases)

I think what I'll do at this point is buy the bike, get it running and put it in proper storage here. Once I have my current project completed I'll take inventory of the bike and go from there.

For storage I usually add fresh oil throughout and filters.
Fill with fuel and add Fuel Stabiliazer (should I allow the carbs to fill with stabilized fuel on these or leave them empty?)
Lube any good cables etc.
In this case I'll coat good metal areas with WD40.

It won't be going into heated storage but it will be a proper enclosed shelter. Do you think there's anything I should remove from the bike and bring into my basement to save it from further deterioration?

Anything else?

Steve, what about that front brake line. You mentioned the one's that come straight off the Master Cyl are rare. Are there companies that can refurbish those original lines? As you can see, it's a bit rusty and the line itself is weather checked.

I had no idea the dual disc setup would be original. I thought it was a dealer add on or something. Nice if it's original and desireable!

The signal/kill switch threw me as they are gray??? I have only seen black on these things. I'll have to ask the owner what happened to the originlal set. Knowing him, he may have them.

Thanks so much gang,

[Wayne]

Well, as I sit here pouring over Sandcast info the project intruiges me more and more! I have hit up a couple of the Canadian slavage yards to see what they may have hidden away. I'm kind of hoping I may get someone who doesn't know exactly what they are sitting on. Could I be so lucky??? (twice?)

I thought maybe I would start a blog with pictures when I get into the build. Does anyone else here do that? I would love to see some.

I have decided that if I go ahead with this build it will be a "refurbish" rather than a perfect restoration that would have to be trailered around. I want to make it nice, but OK to ride on a nice sunny day.