More and more surprising!! VIN-1014046/E-1014138

[4pots1969]

More and more surprising!!          

I did not think of seeing one day this Cover Clutch "9/10" reserved
for Engines Sandcast after period gone up on an engine Diecast???

The owner is formal: this clutch cover is of origin and was never changed!!
What would be moreover the interest to change a clutch cover 10 holes for
clutch cover "9/10" on an engine planned to receive a Clutch cover 10 holes??
It would be completely absurd!!
 
The Engine number VIN-1014046/E-1014138 (March 10th 1970) corresponds has the period
when Honda drew crankcases Sandcasts from its reserves to feed assembly lines and that
explains these errors and this total confusion..

If it is very real we are in the big nonsense..

[kp]

That is amazing to see. Thanks for sharing that anomaly with this group as it really shows anything is possible on an assembly line. 

[Steve Swan]

if i am understanding correctly..... 

so, this is a "9 hole" transitional clutch cover fitted to die cast crank cases ?  goes to show there are no "hard and fast rules" to early "k0" production. 

would be very curious to know if this die cast crankcase set has 10 holes....  one would expect 10 holes in die cast crank case set. 

would be an even more huge anomoly if these die cast cases had 9 holes.....   

[kp]

A couple of things are obvious though. The engine number has been altered. The CB750E is Honda stamping but the remaining numbers have been stamped with other than Honda stamps so any real assessment is not conclusive to these cases. Could be a set of original sandcast cases were fitted and subsequently damaged. The bolts holding the side cover are not original and the case nuts look to have been the subject of tools at some time. Just some observations

[Marcello Tha]

I agree 100% with KP.

[Steve Swan]

yeah.... i saw the allen screws.  i did not look closely at vin font.  i thought the vin pad looked like die cast... ?  (has a raised ridge around pad periphery.... right ?)

[Steve Swan]

yes, the last 7 digits are clearly not honda vin font.  also looks like there's been someting done to surface of the vin pad so the last 7 digits could be altered.  the "CB750E" appears honda factory font; makes me think there was honda font vin, the vin pad surface was disturbed to obscure original vin and then numbers were stamped in the non-honda font.  also, the cases appear perfectly smooth, strongly suggesting die cast cases.  and there is a raised ridge around pad periphery.

[4pots1969]

Yes, it is a very good analysis of the detail!!
I had not noticed that numbers have the end were not of origin Honda and that they had been redone!!
The mystery clears up little... The positive point, it is because it was done well!!

Could we think that this K0 has the exit of assembly lines was in reality Sandcast after E-1007414 (French Sandcasts)??
Afterward the Crankcases Sandcast would have been broken by the chain as many Sandcasts at that time and replaced by Crankcases Diecast with the numbers redoes..

It would explain this clutch cover "9/10" on this engine Diecast but this cover had risen in fact has the origin on an engine
Sandcast after-period??    
But all this is only suppositions..
When in screws, many K0 had Phillips screws changed by screws Allen..

[Steve Swan]

the proof of the pudding will be in removing the clutch cover to count the total number of threaded holes in the crank case set.  i'm guessing 10 holes.

[4pots1969]

My English is bad and I believe that I do not arrive has
to explain to me and has to make me understand..

Yes, I agree and not need to remove the clutch cover.
It is an engine Diecast thus one 10 holes.

I think that before this current engine Diecast, the one who
was the first original engine had to be an engine Sandcast and
it shall explain the clutch cover "9/10" put back on this engine Diecast..

I am going to try to go back up to the preceding owner and maybe
that he can inform me a little more about the first Engine of origin and why
this clutch cover "9/10" gone back up on the Diecast and reserved usually
for the Sandcasts after period... To follow...

[4pots1969]

I am very satisfied to have opened this topic because, not having seen
the numbers redoes, and it is the proof that the engine was well changed..
My first thought was for a confusion and a haste on assembly lines.
Now I think that we can forget this hypothesis..
It is very good and rather reassuring...

[kp]

That VIN and engine # seem to be in the same series as the other group of sandcast engined bikes. I wonder of the owner kept the engine cases 

[CBman]

I´m sorry, but I think that all french sandcasts are fake. It is not possible to make 3000 sandy bikes in range of 14k to17k just only for France. It is also nonsence to make special clutch cover in mass production after 7000 units were just made, and than switch back to standard cover. Sorry, but this case has no sence, and Honda was not stupid in 1970.

[4pots1969]

Hello CBman,

No problem..Everybody has the right to give its opinion and you are free to think of what you want...

I´m sorry, but I think that all french sandcasts are fake. It is not possible to make 3000 sandy bikes in range of 14k to17k just only for France??.  

I think that you did not understand everything but I excuse you because my English is very bad!!
Who said where writes it?? Absolutely nobody!!  In any case it is not me..
We speak only about some tens of copies in 20? 30? 50?.. And even can be even more!!  But who can say it?

They would have been made in the series 14000 17000 and even 12000 (??) long after period 1007414 to assure the high demand of the beginning of year 1970, but as is used nobody really knows it on the other hand what we know, it is whom they are there and whom they are very real...

Then believe in one in it where then we nor believe not as you it is not the most important.. But it is necessary to make with, simply!!

And they were not specially made for France, not at all. They arrived in France by the purest fate and they would have been very well able to arrive in Germany where in the USA where simply to stay in Japan.. There, they would have been accepted and nobody would have had the idea to dispute these Sandcasts exceptional...

Who can dispute this engine bloc Sandcast E-1017118 over this photo?
If that it is a fake, the counterfeiter is a "Big artist" and I make him one "Standing ovation"!!

Best Regards, Gérard G

[kp]

I have to agree with 4pots1969. These sandcast engines exist and could easily have been delivered to other countries.The stampings look to be absolutely genuine as do the engine cases and I think to dispute this is just not reasonable. I can understand the reluctance of some here to dispute the facts but we are a group that needs to seek whatever knowledge we can about the production of the early CB750. My good friend Tom Courtney has some comment on a later than 7414 VIN sandcast engine in Oz and I originally didn't think he was right but having seen the evidence of these French delivered bikes then I have to say there is much we still don't know and anything is possible. My "very weak" theory is that they were spare part (replacement) engine cases that were taken from the inventory and used in the regular production line given the die cast engines were in full use by this time.
Viva la France