Honda CB750 Sandcast

Sandcast Frame Label

kp · 42 · 20372

kp

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1806
    • View Profile
Anyone know who is making the frame labels (non VIN). I was asked by a member where these are available but as I have sufficient for my needs I have lost the information on where they are sourced from. I do know there are some not so good ones out there but the type I have are the thicker and more exact labels.  I know of the ones made by reproduction decals and as Mark has indicated they are a second choice but there was a supplier making a way better label. HELP  8) KP
« Last Edit: November 01, 2011, 07:05:40 am by kp »
Yabba Dabba KP


1941wld

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 170
    • View Profile
KP, please update the group on what serial number Honda started using these labels.
Thanks,
1941wld


kp

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1806
    • View Profile
Well I'm not sure I can answer that one. I do know that there are 2 headstock labels for the US/Canada sandcast, these being an aluminum type which has no VIN or manufacturing date evident. This label is made from alloy foil but is quiet thick compared to other foil type labels. I understand that this label was used on US/Canada frames whereas other countries had a "made in japan" label affixed in lieu of the larger label. How correct this statement is I cannot be sure.
Let's call this label "Type 1"
The next label is your standard type early Honda CB750 which is a full blown VIN plate which has the frame number and month of manufacture stamped into the plate. This is a rigid aluminum plate. This plate was not seen in all countries at the same time. For example this plate was not affixed to Australian frames until around June 1972. I believe other countries had similar experiences. From what I've seen written on this Board, I believe this plate was affixed to US frames produced somewhere in September and somewhere between VIN 5000 to VIN 6000
Let's call this label/plate "Type 2"
Anyway back to your original question as to when Honda commenced placing this early label (type 1) on their frames. That is a bloody good question and one I've not thought about before.  ??? I do know that my frame 969 had this label affixed.
OK members, let us have it. Al Landry's bike would be a good start given the low VIN as would be Tim from Ca.
Yep a damn good question
Yabba Dabba KP


markb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1249
    • View Profile
#97 has a Type 1 label.
Mark
Mark B
1969 CB750 sandcast #97 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1969 CB750 sandcaxt #576 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1553 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1990 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #5383 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1970 CB750 K0 restored - Sold
2010 H-D Tri Glide Ultra Classic (Huh?)


Steve Swan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 2705
    • View Profile
    • cb750sandcastonly.com
232 has it's original (per KP, "type 1") *adhesive* label on RH steering head, as does Allan Landry's 226, as does Andy Dixon's 175.  Mark would have to weigh in on 97 having a label, i'm going to say it should have an adhesive label, unless it was removed.  I have seen these same "type 1" adhesive labels on smaller model, same year Hondas.  I owned a lovely 900 mile original 69 CL175 that had this type 1 label.

To date, we have not seen the "type 1" adhesive label on any Sept.69 frames; only "type 2" riveted plates.  I would hazard to say, every CB750 from #1 had an adhesive label, until, at least through July.69.  We've asked for BB readers to write in what sort of label/plate the Aug.69 frames have, but i don't think we've had a response, yet..

Around 2002, I purchased locally, a German K1.  IF i remember correctly, it's riveted vin plate was on the LH steering head, opposite USA placement......  And, it seems, the stamped vin was on the RH steering head.  And the plate looked nothing like a USA ("type 2") riveted plate.  If my memory is not correct, then i've got another chance to be wrong.... ;D  

Chris R could weigh in on this topic, he has familiarity with these "type 2" riveted tags, both non-USA and USA.

The type 1 adhesive label is not as thick as the riveted type 2 plate, but to my way of thinking, to call the type 1 a label is sort of a "mis-description," even though i call it a label myself, to distinguish frome the later type 2 plate.  If you've ever removed one of these type 1 "labels," you'll find out pretty quickly it's a pretty thick piece of "foil," really more like a plate.  And not thin like the "oil" label on the RH side cover or the "exhaust" swing arm label, which are more sticker-like.  sheesh, words, semantics.  label, sticker, plate.  whew.


Riccardo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
    • Posts: 362
    • View Profile
232 has it's original (per KP, "type 1") *adhesive* label on RH steering head, as does Allan Landry's 226, as does Andy Dixon's 175.  Mark would have to weigh in on 97 having a label, i'm going to say it should have an adhesive label, unless it was removed.  I have seen these same "type 1" adhesive labels on smaller model, same year Hondas.  I owned a lovely 900 mile original 69 CL175 that had this type 1 label.

To date, we have not seen the "type 1" adhesive label on any Sept.69 frames; only "type 2" riveted plates.  I would hazard to say, every CB750 from #1 had an adhesive label, until, at least through July.69.  We've asked for BB readers to write in what sort of label/plate the Aug.69 frames have, but i don't think we've had a response, yet..

Around 2002, I purchased locally, a German K1.  IF i remember correctly, it's riveted vin plate was on the LH steering head, opposite USA placement......  And, it seems, the stamped vin was on the RH steering head.  And the plate looked nothing like a USA ("type 2") riveted plate.  If my memory is not correct, then i've got another chance to be wrong.... ;D  

Chris R could weigh in on this topic, he has familiarity with these "type 2" riveted tags, both non-USA and USA.

The type 1 adhesive label is not as thick as the riveted type 2 plate, but to my way of thinking, to call the type 1 a label is sort of a "mis-description," even though i call it a label myself, to distinguish frome the later type 2 plate.  If you've ever removed one of these type 1 "labels," you'll find out pretty quickly it's a pretty thick piece of "foil," really more like a plate.  And not thin like the "oil" label on the RH side cover or the "exhaust" swing arm label, which are more sticker-like.  sheesh, words, semantics.  label, sticker, plate.  whew.

I agrre with Steve,
all European bike have the vin plate rivetted on LH and digits stamped on Rh.
But my experience if for KO and late.
I never seen european sandcast.
All mine sandcast have the alloy label (not thin) on the Rh.

r.
Riccardo
Your Italian friend.
737/940 Restored
1081/1362 Preserved
1256/665 Restored - ex Owner: Chris R.
10253/10315 (K0) Next project
1969 - Kawasaki H1 Mach III low ign cover - Restored
1969 - Kawasaki H1 Mach III high ign cover - Restored
1971 - Kawasaki H1A - Restored
1973 - Kawasaki H1D - Preserved
1973 - Kawasaki Z1 Blackhead - Restored
1971 - Norton Commando SS - Preserved
1978 - Honda CBX - Unmolested Museum Quality
1988 - Honda CB 400SS - Unmolested
1997 - BMW R80 GS Basic - blue frame - Museum Quality
2007 - BMW HP2 Megamoto - blue frame - New


cb7504

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
    • Posts: 290
    • View Profile
The following sandcast vins all have the type 1 adhesive frame label: 151, 677, 1849, 2435, 3025, 4393, 4527, 5355, 5382, 5672. Marty K.



cb7504

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
    • Posts: 290
    • View Profile
Steve: It would be nice to have a complete set. Marty K.


kettle738

  • Newbie
  • *
    • Posts: 33
    • View Profile

We didn't get sandcasts in the UK, the first UK market CB750 1010369 has a stamped in VIN on the left side of the steering neck and 'Honda Made in Japan' label on the right side......no rivetted VIN plate.....but I cannot be totally certain that the sticker is the correct type.

Mick.........kettle738


kp

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1806
    • View Profile
Fellas, fellas, fellas .... please.  ::) I just used the word label, type 1 and type 2 for convenience so you can call it whatever you want. 1941wld also used the term label so it was appropriate for me to respond with like. To my mind it is aluminum foil. Hey; why don't we call it an alloy decal with a large piece of tubular steel stuck to it.  :o

I wasn't 100% sure about the European (non-UK) bikes but the Ozzie CB750 bikes and early UK bikes have no ID Plates in 69 & 70 nor 71 & 72for Oz if memory serves. One of the early CB750 publications has some comment on this. Nor do the Japanese domestic market bikes have a plate (could be wrong here as well but don't think so).

Talking semantics, I used the term "full blown VIN plate" as we do. But, is this riveted aluminum plate a true VIN plate?  ???

But getting back to my original question, does anyone know if there is someone making this thicker type "sticker"
KP
Yabba Dabba KP


cb7504

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
    • Posts: 290
    • View Profile
The Japanese (domestic) frames did not have any type of vin tag/label on their bikes only the vin stamped on the frame neck. I am pretty sure the stamping was on the left side of the frame neck, but not 100% sure, maybe 99.99% on this. Marty K.


hondasan

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 379
    • View Profile
#5298 has the adhesive backed "no date"thin aluminium "label" on it.
#8054 has the riveted and dated VIN label on it.

UK bikes did not have the aluminium label / plate on them, certainly not up to at least the K2. just the number stamped into the left side of frame neck, and a simple "Made in Japan" sticker on the right side.

Sorry KP, can't answer your original question about where to get replacement early type "label" from!

Chris R.
Chris R.
302/338


markb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1249
    • View Profile
KP,
Don't know if this is the source, but this site has what looks like the best I've seen.  Scroll down to item Z228.
http://hondaminitrail.com/ct70.html
It's the right size and thickness and the lettering looks the same.  I haven't bought one yet but I'm going to.
Mark
Mark B
1969 CB750 sandcast #97 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1969 CB750 sandcaxt #576 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1553 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1990 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #5383 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1970 CB750 K0 restored - Sold
2010 H-D Tri Glide Ultra Classic (Huh?)


kp

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1806
    • View Profile
Hi Mark
Yep That looks to be them and they say they are the thick material
PM sent KP
Yabba Dabba KP