K0 mirrors

[chrisnoel]

Getting ready to make another large purchase from Yamiya next month but I'm not sure I want the mirrors that are available.  I've seen, on sandcast's, mirrors that have PAT. 536635 on them but Yamiya's do not.  I do want to go new but I'd sure like to know if the missing PAT # is a dead give away first. 

[vnz00]

Hi Chris, yes, the symbol is also different on the back.  The originals have the Pat No, and the HM logo with an oval around it.  They yamiya ones are still honda, but just the remade versions.  Difficult to tell unless you look closely, but depends on how much you want to spend on a nice original set, and taking the risk that the chromer doesnt polish those stamps out. 

[kp]

actually, I think the original mirrors have the stamp Pat Pen. The later mirrors have the patent number But I could be wrong. I'm away at the moment so could someone check. I think later K0 and early K1 have the patent number
Get the Yamiya K1 mirrors for the rubber and new glass but toss the rest These are cheaper and you can then restore a set of early mirrors Dead F'n easy 

[Steve Swan]

I "think" we are talking about ?3? mirror types:  1)  early orig.mfgr double logo w/ pat.#'s, 2)  later mfgr double logo w/o patent numbers and 3)  most recent mfgr single logo.

I just looked at my mirrors, both the early patent number (original, first) manufacture type and the later manufacture no patent number type.

Type 1.  Early orig.mfgr mirrors have two logos, "MS" and "Honda."   These early.mfgr mirrors have other stamping around the the "MS" logo; i.e.,  "pat. 536563."

Type 2.  Later mfgr mirrors have"HM" logo and "MS" logo with no patent number.  The "MS" logo is smaller on the later mirror than on the earlier mirror.  I can't say with certainty these later mfgr mirrors came from the factory on any sandcast or "K0" bikes or if they were replacement parts to original double logo mirrors.  My personal opinion, i believe only double logo mirrors came from the factory on sandcast and "K0" bikes.  If if mirrors with patent numbers and without patent numbers came on sandcasts is another question.  (as an aside, i do know for a fact, double logo w/ pat.#'s mirrors came on K1 bikes and of course we know this mirror type did not use an acorn fixing nut.)

Type 3.  "Most recent" (beyond early and later) manufacture Honda mirrors, until at least recently available from Honda, which come in Honda  labelled parts boxes have no "HM" logo; only "MS" logo.  

I've not seen mirrors from Yamiya, but i am assuming they are Honda "most recent" manufacture type.

Chris notes the pat.# is 536635.  My mirrors have 536365 stamped on them.  Assuming we have 2 different series of patent numbers, could this mean there are 2 different patent number mirror types ?

[Wayne]

Just checked the only original mirror I have for 576. (the other was not on the bike when sitting in the utility shed so I'm hoping in storage it is not pitted as badly as this one)

Around the "MS" logo it reads "Pat 536563" and "Made In Japan"
The lower is the oval with the Honda Logo.

I don't know if this mirror can be restored or not. The lower logo was over polished already (I assume in production??) The lines to the right and lower right of the oval are not very deep at all. Fingers crossed the other one in storage is in better shape!! 

[kp]

I"ll have to check my box of mirrors again. I thought I recalled there being something different with the stampings of the dual stamped mirrors ..................... or it could be I'm dreaming again 

[Steve Swan]

Thanks, Wayne.  Yes.....  i forgot the "Made in Japan" stamping.....

[chrisnoel]

Kerimeny!  Suppose I'll buy both the K0 set and the K1 set as KP suggested.  That way I'll have a good set to use and the parts to dream about restoring some originals.  I'm now thinking the Pat number I referenced was not from a double logo mirror but later mirrors. 

[Steve Swan]

Email w/ KP and re-reading my above post i made what i feel to be hasty, inaccurate and incomplete observations about features of two types of double logo mirrors.  I apologize for the confusion.

I re-examined the 4 double logo mirrors i have.  All 4 have "HM" logo.  3 have "MS" logo including patent number 536563 with "Made in Japan."   The 4th mirror has "MS" logo, no patent number with "Made in Japan."

One of these "patent number" mirrors is attatched to an original patina 11mm stem.  The other "patent number" mirror was attached to an original patina 10mm stem.  Both these mirrors came from Eastern Iowa, from a seller who told me the mirrors were "take offs" from a CB750 he  bought new, early Summer 1969.  At the same time i bought these mirrors, i also purchased an early 11 hole seat from the same seller who said the seat and mirrors all came from the same bike.  This is the "evidence" i used to make my assumption, "patent number" mirrors are an early type....  

What are fellow members thoughts on one type being early or later or were both types contemporary with each other ?  As if we could ever know for certain....  

Re:  patent number, for clarification - all 3 of my "patent number" mirrors have the number (as noted by Wayne) 536563.  (in my above post, i stated the number to be 536365....... NOT.  sheesh.)

Below are pics of the 2 different logo types on my mirrors.  (KP's logos same.)

[kp]

If I recall, the later mirrors don't have the patent number. The no patent  mirror was also carried on into the early K1 but fellas my knowledge of the K1 stopped at the last K0 and even my K0 knowledge is limited.

[vnz00]

Hmmm just checking my Sandcast / K0 mirror situation this morning.  I think I can identify 4 types:
1. Early Sandcast - Pat 536563, MS Logo, Made in Japan, HM oval logo, 11mm Stem
2. Later Sandcast / K0 - As Above, 10mm Stem
3. Old Stock Spares (later production than originals) - MS Logo, Made in Japan, HM Oval Logo 10mm stem.  Seems to be a size difference in the HM Oval Logo size comparted to Type 1 & 2
4. Current Production - MS Logo, Made in Japan 10mm Stem.

I managed to get my hands on a NOS pair of mirrors the other day.  One was a type 2, the other at type 3. 

I have previously replaced the mirrors on my ride K0 (1033xxx) which were type 2, with type 4 from Yamiya.

This seems to confirm Steve's observations but happy to hear if there are more differences. 

Regards,
Steven.

[Steve Swan]

Very nice work, Steven ! 

Keen observation; 4 types !

[kp]

I spose it's a moot point but there is a 5th and that is the double logo early K1 mirror with the bent stem. This mirror has the same back as the K0 mirror and can be used with the K0 stem and attachment fittings. You have to disassemble to attach though. I did this many years back to a K0 I restored that had a damaged mirror body.

[Steve Swan]

KP, great tip !

[chrisnoel]

So far I have found four mirrors with the correct backs and sent the backs out for chrome.  Two came back with the logo's mostly in tact so I count myself lucky as the chrome shop warned me that this would be hard to do.  I also have two 10mm mirror stems but one has a smaller bracket and the other has a larger bracket as pictured by WayneT.  The threads are also different lenghts.  

The larger bracket is 16mm wide and the threads at the other end are 22mm long.
The smaller bracket is 13mm wide and the threads at the other end are 27mm long.
I'm thinking the first type is probably the correct one.  Search continues for another one.  

Purchased a set of these
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-10mm-CHROME-MIRRORS-CL350-CL450-CX500-GL500-CB200-CL-Mirror-Set-/190720729478?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c67d76186&vxp=mtr
just to see how close they are and found that the stem is way too short. 
Put them on a CB77 fix up project along with some other CB750 k0 cues as well.   Short signals, black kill knob controls, etc....