Honda CB750 Sandcast

Yamiya K0 Shocks

kp

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I totally agree with your sentiment Steff. Who cares who makes or sells it as long as there is a supplier.
One of the issues is that Honda have threatened legal action to anyone reproducing parts that they have not approved. Approval can be had as long as specific criteria is met. David Silver Spares in the UK was actually taken on legally for selling reproduction Honda parts as reported in world media. Honda also took on a guy in Australia for reproducing badges and another one in Canada was taken on for reproducing decals. Yep, Reproduction decals in Canada were subject to the wrath of Honda. I know about this because some CBX decals I wanted were removed from the catalogue due to pressure from Honda and they told me this during an exchange I had with them. If you visit their website you won't see any reference to a Honda decal yet they produce some of the best repop decals around
http://www.diablocycle.com/-Decals/
As for the suppliers to Honda, my understanding is that what they make specifically and supply to Honda cannot be sold to anyone other than Honda. I can be corrected on this point if I'm incorrect. A company who made a specific part for Honda in the 1970's remade the same part some years back and sold them to various suppliers worldwide. All hell broke out with that supplier resulting in the product being withdrawn from sale with the product being subsequently modified (removal of certain branding) before it was again resold.
Anyway it is a good topic for discussion and there are differing views so I'm going to post a new thread in General Discussion to see what the others think  :o
Yabba Dabba KP


Steve Swan

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very interesting and i will admit disappointed with what i just discovered.....  take a look at the upper steel eye on this set of shox sold by Z1 parts....  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-CB750-Sand-Cast-Shocks-CB750K-K0-K-K1-Sandcast-Shock-Absorbers-CB-750-719-/161852758738?hash=item25af2d1ad2&vxp=mtr

that eye on the Z1 shox is not at all like the eye on the shox i received from Yamiya....  the Z1 eye certainly appears to approximate original.


Sgt.Pinback

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were the pictures of shox helpful ?

Steve,

to me it is hard to understand which shock is what.
Cheers, Uli (Leonberg, Germany)


ashimotok0

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I totally agree with your sentiment Steff. Who cares who makes or sells it as long as there is a supplier.
One of the issues is that Honda have threatened legal action to anyone reproducing parts that they have not approved. Approval can be had as long as specific criteria is met. David Silver Spares in the UK was actually taken on legally for selling reproduction Honda parts as reported in world media. Honda also took on a guy in Australia for reproducing badges and another one in Canada was taken on for reproducing decals. Yep, Reproduction decals in Canada were subject to the wrath of Honda. I know about this because some CBX decals I wanted were removed from the catalogue due to pressure from Honda and they told me this during an exchange I had with them. If you visit their website you won't see any reference to a Honda decal yet they produce some of the best repop decals around
http://www.diablocycle.com/-Decals/
As for the suppliers to Honda, my understanding is that what they make specifically and supply to Honda cannot be sold to anyone other than Honda. I can be corrected on this point if I'm incorrect. A company who made a specific part for Honda in the 1970's remade the same part some years back and sold them to various suppliers worldwide. All hell broke out with that supplier resulting in the product being withdrawn from sale with the product being subsequently modified (removal of certain branding) before it was again resold.
Anyway it is a good topic for discussion and there are differing views so I'm going to post a new thread in General Discussion to see what the others think  :o

I wrote to Honda about the ludicrous situation that I could not buy a repro seat in Europe with the Honda Logo on it  and Saisei had to refund the money I paid them for importing me a Yamiya seat because he was prevented from re-selling it to me it  because it has the HONDA logo on it . Saisei in the UK had a meeting with Honda UK and, during fruitful discussions, presented my letter and also DS also had similar discussions. The outcome was very favourable. I will let the two Davids (David Taylor from Saisei and David Silver from DS spares) give the detail but it's definitely a step forward for us in Europe. Several people told me that it was like 'banging my head against a  brick wal'l trying to get any sense out of Honda UK but it just shows that if you persist and can get past the 'suits' it can be worthwhile.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2015, 03:23:44 am by ashimotok0 »


Steve Swan

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were the pictures of shox helpful ?

Steve,

to me it is hard to understand which shock is what.

for example, to me the huge pair of welded beads 180' apart from each other on each side of the steel eye is quite visible.  especially when the shock is mounted, one sees the welds in the full display of a side view.

part of the problem is in trying to form an accurate evaluation is looking at pictures of parts instead of looking at actual parts, but for the most part i think we do pretty good.  and maybe another factor is how many of us have actually seen actual original parts to compare to repro parts.  another obvious difference, assuming one has seen an original 7 spring shock, the diameter of the wire uses ot make the coil spring is not as large as Yamiya.

when i post pictures i always look at the picture of the object, to make sure the picture is decent enough to see distinctions i am able to see in the pictures i posted.  i feel the pictures i posted and an original 7 spring and the yamiya shock, viewing the black steel eyes, the springs and the welding on the base of the shocks where eyelet is held on by a nut show the differences between the 2 shocks quite well....


ashimotok0

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Well thanks to Steve's kind efforts I have sent Yamiya an email requesting cancellation of my replica  shocks due to the welded top but mainly the thinner wire,  non-correct to original  spring. If the spring had been correct I could have exchanged it with my Honda NOS 52400-300-020XW  set. Not sure how Yamiya will respond to cancelling an item but I will post any reply.

Interestingly, I also found these at 26,000 Yen BIN price. (the  Yamiya ones were 38,000 Yen with 21% after this months offer discount

http://page10.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/m144828425

Cheers again  for your help Steve
« Last Edit: October 15, 2015, 07:24:26 pm by ashimotok0 »


Steve Swan

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Well thanks to Steve's kind efforts I have sent Yamiya an email requesting cancellation of my replica  shocks due to the welded top but mainly the thinner wire,  non-correct to original  spring. If the spring had been correct I could have exchanged it with my Honda NOS 52400-300-020XW  set. Not sure how Yamiya will respond to cancelling an item but I will post any reply.

Interestingly, I also found these at 26,000 Yen BIN price. (the  Yamiya ones were 38,000 Yen with 21% after this months offer discount

http://page10.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/m144828425

Cheers again  for your help Steve

Ash, what strikes me is those shox Z1 Parts is selling on ebay are NOT like like shox sold by Yamiya.  in particular, that black steel part of the actual shock protruding through the chrome cover AND the eye.  to my eye, has very much an oem *appearance*  not very many pics to look at, but overall the shock looks better than the Yamiya.  difficult to tell the spring diameter in the auction pics.  

another thought these Z1 shox raises is:  because these Z1 Parts shox look different thant Yamiya, does this mean there is more than one manufacturer of shocks?

would be nice to hear a report from anyone who has bought the Z1 Parts shox.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/CB750-Sandcast-Shocks-/141798919265?hash=item2103dfcc61:g:fw4AAOxyXzxTH5lg&vxp=mtr




kp

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I noted the photos published by Mr Swan and the top eye is not a good look for a reproduction part and this disappoints me. Unfortunately the Z1 Parts shock has a problem at the opposite end in that the bottom bracket that bolts the shock to the swing arm is welded to the shock bottom tube  :o. This should be bolted. The Yamiya shock suffers from a poorly constructed top eye whereas the Z1 Parts product suffers from a poorly copied bottom eye. A pity both manufacturers (if there are 2) couldn't combine their efforts and make a very good reproduction  ;D
Yabba Dabba KP


Steve Swan

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Hey there, Eagle Eye.  GREAT OBSERVATION !!!!  I totally missed that one ! :o

yes, i was surprised and disappointed to see that top eye from Yamiya.  and i have to admit, i am a loyal Yamiya customer.  i actually don't buy from any other vendor and over the past few months i've spent more with them than all my past put together.


kp

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Like Mr Beuthner, I'm just anal about this stuff.  ;D
Yabba Dabba KP


ashimotok0

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Well I got this back from Shimpei at Yamiya overnight. He raises a valid point on why the replicas are welded IMHO, possibly a reason why Honda have discontinued 52400-300-020XW (not the poor quality of the weld on the Yamiya ones  though !). I posted him pics of the tops and springs of original and replica, with annotated comments on why they are different. I seem to remember that ChrisR commented that if I fitted decent or rechromed original springs to the new 52400-300-020XW Honda ones I have, they would look OK and pretty much  like original 10/69 Diecast. This was years ago so sorry if I got it wrong Chris. Just need to find the springs now (or perhaps move on and get a life  :))

Dear Sir,

 We cancelled your order #19046 and gave you a full refund.

Please place a new order for the all parts you need all together again.

The thickness of the original Honda K0 rear shock spring wire is 4.5mm.

Our replica shocks M068 has 4.5mm wire and it is the same as original.

We have no idea why your shock in your pic has different thickness wire.
The welding method has been changed to meet the recent safety standard.
hank you for your understanding.

Best Regards,

Motorcycle YAMIYA

 


WONDER who makes these .. The translation says made in Japan

http://page10.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/m144828425

BTW a member on HondaTwins.net acussed me of obviously being a fan of 'MacGyver' ... had to Google that one!
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 01:34:25 am by ashimotok0 »


Sgt.Pinback

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would be nice to hear a report from anyone who has bought the Z1 Parts shox.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/CB750-Sandcast-Shocks-/141798919265?hash=item2103dfcc61:g:fw4AAOxyXzxTH5lg&vxp=mtr



I have them mounted on my K0. That bike is driven regularly.

i would say, these shocks are too stiff (but they all were in those days) compared to KONI I had before.
Bumpy on poor roads, even in softest position, but reasonable on good roads.
Cheers, Uli (Leonberg, Germany)


Steve Swan

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Good to here reports like this.  every time i ride 2157 (original. deCarbon Nitrogen filled) i am impressed overall with it's ride, ability to absorb bumps and manage turns.  considering it is a 46 year old motorcycle design.


4pots1969

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This response from Yamiya on this welding is a poor excuse for crap (as their copies of shock absorbers...) that is worthless and should be well they find something to respond...
They also sell the (more expensive) original Honda model that doesn't have as big weld and if there was a security problem has this place Honda would have modified it for a long time...
Gerard
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 10:56:09 am by 4pots1969 »