Honda CB750 Sandcast

Sandcast Production

kp · 11 · 2465

kp

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I know this topic has been talked about before and really it's an academic question anyway given we really don't know the exact sequence of sandcast production. From the earliest known casting of the sandcast cases to the final cases (excluding the french cases) we have about 5 to six months of production for the Sandcast. I was just looking at the distinctions listed in that grouping and noted that from our current estimates at best, 19 litre tanks and brass vent carbs were fitted to around 350 machines. By my reckoning estimates that, say, around 40 to 50 machines were produced each day. This makes the fitting of these tanks and carbs on about 2 weeks production.
When you think about this, it is quiet remarkable that they were able to correct this carb and tank issue within 2 weeks after commencing production. Obviously it is something we don't know but still; I wonder if they knew about the tank fouling the carbs issue before production began but didn't have the issue sorted or they found the problem issue after production began. I would have thought the early testing would have picked this issue up but we'll probably never know the answer
If one reads the distinction list and takes into account the known changes as listed in the parts manual there are changes that occurred after the first 100 engines were produced
When you think about it these changes throughout production were quiet an achievement
Yabba Dabba KP


vnz00

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Hi KP, good topic.  I’ve often wondered what production numbers per day during the first few months of production were.

I’m imagining they would have had parts produced prior to the assembly line production starting.  Could we say production of parts started at the beginning of the year?  Then assembly started maybe in April/May 69?  I saw a very early owner post that he bought one of the first US delivered bikes (not orig owner) which had a receipt early June 69.  

We know sandcasts (ie 7414 and earlier) stopped during 9.69.  I have a pic of a Diecast Vin tag #7913 which was also stamped on the tag as a 9.69 bike.  The earliest VIN number in the registry with the 9.69 date stamp is 6563.  This means at the end of sandcast production they had potentially ramped up production numbers to c. 1400 bikes per month.

Do we assume the staff were worked 7days a week or shift work allowed for 7 day production week?

I’m sure someone here would know exactly when production started - maybe heard it first hand?
« Last Edit: May 05, 2018, 11:10:26 am by vnz00 »


Steve Swan

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this is a great convo, i hope it keeps going.  Steven brings up some great points i don't recall us discussing; certainly there had to be parts made in advance.  We know the 1st sandcast was assembled March 15.  Bob Jameson said so; he was present when CB750-1000001 was assembled.  I don't believe it is unreasonable to assume production commenced shortly thereafter.  Steven's suggestion the factory worked seven days a week is a good one.  I googled the day of the week for March 15, 1969.  That day was Saturday.


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kp

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altho i have looked at this picture more than once, i just noticed the kick start lever appears to have no rubber on it.
and no mirrors
Yabba Dabba KP


kp

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That’s good info on 448. We can now amend the distinctions list to say the 19litre tank was fitted to frames to at least 448. I believe maybe the early carbs followed the 19 litre although I have not seen any evidence to support this belief
Yabba Dabba KP


vnz00

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If we assume the following:
Assembly started Mar 15 1969
Assumption: Sandcast 6562 was the last produced in 08.69 (given we know the earliest sandcast VIN with 9.69 stamp on VIN Tag is 6563- recorded in the VIN Registry)
Days between Mar 15 -> Aug 31 are 170 days inclusive
Calculate 6562/170days gives c. 38 to 39 bikes assembled per day, average (Im sure that average varied quite a bit, given initial production may have been slow until they ironed out assembly line efficiency, staff became more experienced etc).  So they were likely below average at the beginning of production, and were above average once reaching the end of sandcast assembly.  This is also dependent on not finding an earlier 9.69 VIN tag which would reduce that average rate slightly.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 10:59:51 pm by vnz00 »


Steve Swan

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That’s good info on 448. We can now amend the distinctions list to say the 19litre tank was fitted to frames to at least 448. I believe maybe the early carbs followed the 19 litre although I have not seen any evidence to support this belief

i updated "distinctions" to reflect the 19L tank is found on 448.  there are quite a number of other distinctions folks have listed in that thread.  i shall get them in the "distinctions" list as time permits.  i know i have been delinquent in that area.


Sam

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This is fun stuff.

So is it reasonable to say that sandcast production (excluding the french bikes) likely ended in late September?
Ujeni Motors
Sandcast #410
Sandcast #538 Watch the restoration!
Sandcast #6592 All original daily driver.
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vnz00

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So is it reasonable to say that sandcast production (excluding the french bikes) likely ended in late September?

It was definitely sometime in September Sam.  Likely the later half if you work out a min. 1350 bikes were built in September from what we have known evidence of.