Country first bikes were released in???

[Wayne]

I was talking to an old friend last night who used to race bikes. (and still does although he is in his late 60's!) I was telling him about my new found sandcast and some of what I have learned so far about them. He said he bought a 69 when they first hit Canada and of course modified it to fit his requirements for racing. When he showed up at the track with it people were in awe. He said specifically the Americans as they hadn't seen any yet. I asked him why? His reply was that Honda first released the bike in Canada and the UK as there were some minor issues in the USA that had yet to be resolved so Honda could not market them there. I have no idea if what he is saying is true however if it is, I'll be watching closer for any more "finds". Has anyone heard of this?

[kp]

Like everything else, we lose track of time the older we get. UK didn't get sandcast bikes at all so I think he is a little off the mark. The market these bikes were specifically made for was the US market with everybody else getting second bite. I think all the low VIN bikes were sold to the US market. Swannie, any comment KP

[Steve Swan]

My understanding UK rec'd no sandcast bikes.

Andy Dixon's #175 was purchased in Canada.  There are a number of vins under 1000 in Canada.  Only who knows why.  I am not going to surmise the reasons.

Bob Hansen and Bob Jameson were very clear in their talks at VMD 2009, Honda specifically designed the CB750 with the American retail market in mind.  Bob Hansen spoke directly to Sochiro honda in 1967 about designing a four cylinder machine for the American market.  Bob Jameson was spent around 45 days working with the Japanese engineers at the factory.  Both these guys are Americans.

I cannot think of (or remember) what date and where the first CB750 was sold.

If Chris sees this, he will probably know.

[Wayne]

Interesting that early bikes have been found up here. (my 576 was purchased at a Canadian Dealer, not imported) I know when it comes to large manufacturing talking about NA markets they predominantly focus on the USA. You can't beat it if you are looking for maximum volume and market penetration. Canada is usually in the picture though as from a production standpoint (at least back then until we went metric) nothing really had to be different on most vehicles. Plus Honda had established Dealers, race teams and such up here.

Too bad Bob (the one I know) couldn't find some paperwork on his bike. He said he just had to have one after reading early magazine write ups and such and had the dealer get one as soon as they were available to us. Whether it was an early sandcast (or a sandcast at all) we will probably never know.

[hondasan]

First official imports into the UK was a small batch of die -cast engined bikes in January 1970 (earliest serial number being 1010369).

That said, the first CB750 sold in the UK was actually  a sandcast bike, being the Gold pre-production bike from Las Vegas (which came here in approx. March 1969, and was shown at various shows and road tested by the press both here and in France, before sold to a UK "Earl" in approx. September 1969.

From memory, the US release date was close to the start of  June 1969 (possibly 06th)- there is a Honda US model guide which has been produced several times over the years which quotes release date information. All the evidence I have seen suggests the US to have been the first country to receive production bikes for sale. That said, a significant number of very early VIN number bikes (inside first 1000) do indeed seem to have been originally sold in Canada.

Cheers

[ashimotok0]

The first UK diecast bike was featured in Classic Bike last year (1010369) and is described here

http://www.nirvana-motorcycles.com/

Mine (if I ever get enough decent parts to rebuild the motor!!) is 1010382.

Chris - do you know what the size of the Jan1970 first batch was? and how many survive?

cheers

AshD

[Wayne]

That said, a significant number of very early VIN number bikes (inside first 1000) do indeed seem to have been originally sold in Canada.

Cheers

Interesting. I can't imagine that the total sales for 69 were all that high in Canada so perhaps there are some good early bikes out there to be found.  Damn country is so big though! It's a lot of bushes to beat! 

[hondasan]

I believe the first batch was of just 12 bikes. Known survivors include:

1010369   / E1010712
1010372   / E1010784
1010375   / E1010726
1010379   / E1010794

Also of course yours, which makes at least 5 out of those 12.

Two of the earliest bikes I  have come accross here in the UK were #'s 1000856, and 1000270, both of which came in from Canada.
what with those , #1000175 (first registered 16th June '69 I seem to recall), and several other 3 digit bikes which have surfaced in Canada, it is certainly a country which was there at the start of it all!
 Cheers

[kp]

I have read in many articles that Canadian bikes were distributed by Honda US (or was that Honda Nth America). Now all I have to do is find one of those articles. If this be the case then the early numbered bikes are to be found in both countries. Another unsubstantiated piece of info from deep in the grey ("gray" to you Neanderthals in the northern right corner of my globe) matter of my sadly diminishing brain is that bikes were shipped in lots of 15. I now have to satisfy a need to establish why it is I remember this irrelevant trivia and whether it is in fact remembered correctly. KP 

[ashimotok0]

Hi Chris,

Were the first bikes all consecutive VIN's because if so this would make mine the 14th and does not therefore tally with the 12 you thought came in in Jan 1970.

A guy on Ebay UK told me he had one of the first ones that was shipped with mine and that the manuf. date was 'Oct '69. He was from Gloucester and I met him at Stafford Show just after I had bought my K0. I think he runs the Classic Yamaha Club and his name is Nigel.

cheers

AshD

[hondasan]

Indeed, I would agree that your VIN would be number 14 of the first batch IF we indeed did get all numbers in between yours and 1010369.
As always, the problem is in establishing fact. The "first batch was just 12 bikes" is simply a recollection of a conversation from somewhere over the last 25 years, but is a figure I have heard several times. Is that because it is actually correct, or just because the "rumour" has been spread for so long that it now appears to be fact? I don't know, but gaps in the VIN numbers for original UK bikes (which a friend and I used to collect simply by observation in pre- internet days) certainly suggest small "groups" of closely numbered VINs suggesting small batch sizes - there was also another small "group" of closely numbered UK VINS in the 1015xxx series,amongst others. Would be reasonable to suppose that the factory allocated consecutively manfactured bikes for particular destinations, but of course no GUARANTEE that this was the case.

Unfortunately, we do not have any actual despatch records to support any of this, and sometimes I think we try too hard to reach conclusions based on incomplete information. It interesting to speculate though!

Cheers

[tomcourtney]

It seems to me that if i was looking for a low vin early sandcast pre xxxx600 i would be looking in Canada Thats where i recon there were more.
I do know there were many three digit bikes sold in the US but higher numbers, remember most dealers only got one or two bikes each to start,
I did have a very early brochure from Canada with a pic of a pre production bike on it Maybe they were ready to go slightly earlier as one or two bikes to each dealer in Canada would have been a smaller total and easier for Honda to supply?
Dealers do get pissed if they think they have been left out, so maybe they didnt ship in the US till there were enough to go around?
From my monkey bike knowledge i know the Canada Market was very different to the USA and in Canada you could buy a 1964 CZ100 and a 1967-69 Z50M and these were not available in the US, So i do not believe these were supplied from American Honda. but this is just what i think and i want to point out this may well be incorrect as i am seldom wrong 

[City Boy]

Hi gang.Honda motorbikes in the year 1969 were distributed in Canada by F Manley and Son's. Honda Motor Canada took over distribution shortly thereafter.Mike Manley [son] was an avid road racer at the time and may have influenced the early arrival of 750's.    Rock On

[City Boy]

Hi gang.I must correct myself as on further reflection I realized my mistake.The Can Honda takeover predated the introduction of the 750.However,the service manager from Manley's moved to Honda at the takeover and was also an avid racer and may have had a hand in the early arrival  of the magnificent four! Sorry   Rock On

[Wayne]

Looks like Tom Faulds worked for F. Manley and Sons in 1965 and was the first Canadian Honda Employee when they took over Canadian distribution in 1969. I'll bet he has some great stories!

http://motorcyclehalloffame.ca/faulds_tom.htm