Honda CB750 Sandcast

Restoration of Sandcast #97

markb · 814 · 285433

kmb69

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
    • Posts: 307
    • View Profile
Mark,

Not sure how MUCH difference the alignment of the primary chains actually makes, but I think it does. It appears that they are "offset" in all actual photos in the shop manual excepting a drawing, Fig. 3-91. As best as I can blow them up to see, Figs 3-75, 3-76, 3-84, 3-85, 3-88, and 5-3 all look like the chains are "offset". There is no mention that I can find regarding this in the manual. I have always assembled them "lined up" like in your picture because I tend to be a symmetry kind of guy. But I had already made a decision that I would "offset" them on future builds, stock or not. Now granted I made this decision based on a performance engine I am building and was trying to leave no stone unturned. Should be applicable to a stock engine as well. It makes more sense to me to "offset" them because on an OEM chain I recently measured, there was .026"/.66mm difference in thickness between the inside and outside links. I think the "offset" will effectively "balance" the combined strength of the chains. It might reduce some of the primary noise that becomes very evident when the timing and carbs are not closely synchronized.

Frequently you will find uneven "stretch" between the 2 chains when examining a teardown of an engine with some miles on it. I have never checked the chain alignment during any previous disassembly but will note it in the future. It is my understanding the uneven stretch is cause by variation in the original chains as well as the distortion that takes place in the crankshaft, transmission shaft, primary cushion rubbers, and the cases under hard acceleration. The sprockets on the primary drive are able to move independently. It was very common back in the day to weld these sprockets together on high performance application machines but only recently have I given this much thought.

Keith


Bowswell

  • Jr. Member
  • **
    • Posts: 63
    • View Profile
cb750 k4-06/74
cb750k4 01/74
cb350f 1973
cb400T 1978
vulcan meanstreak


markb

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1249
    • View Profile
Thanks guys.  That's one of the reasons I like to post.  I appreciate any feedback.  It's easy to change it now before I put the cases together.  It would be nice if the link had a reason why.  But Keith, your reasoning make sense.
Mark B
1969 CB750 sandcast #97 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1969 CB750 sandcaxt #576 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1553 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1990 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #5383 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1970 CB750 K0 restored - Sold
2010 H-D Tri Glide Ultra Classic (Huh?)


markb

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1249
    • View Profile
I have a nice block of time again so I want to try to button up the cases.  I got my kick start assembly in.  It took me a while to wrestle it in there but the bottom half is ready.


Then based on advice from several sources I staggered the primary chain so the top half is ready.


So then I’m double-checking everything and find that I’m missing the o-ring that goes around the big pin in the front of the cases.  I was sure I had one but couldn’t find it. ??? Sometimes I wonder if this old girl ever wants to get back together.
Mark B
1969 CB750 sandcast #97 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1969 CB750 sandcaxt #576 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1553 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1990 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #5383 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1970 CB750 K0 restored - Sold
2010 H-D Tri Glide Ultra Classic (Huh?)


Joe K

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
    • Posts: 268
    • View Profile
Of course it will get back together, Mark.  No matter the obstacles it's all worth it.  That's why we all do these restorations.  It's all about the love of the bike and that first start up.  Press on.

Joe K.


markb

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1249
    • View Profile
I just found out that o-ring is in my gasket set from Yamiya.  ???  ::)
Mark B
1969 CB750 sandcast #97 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1969 CB750 sandcaxt #576 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1553 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1990 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #5383 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1970 CB750 K0 restored - Sold
2010 H-D Tri Glide Ultra Classic (Huh?)


markb

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1249
    • View Profile
I’m ready to button up the cases but before I do here is a pic of another distinction.  The bearing on the primary drive on the clutch end of the main shaft  is smooth on engines up to 5306.  After that they have a groove.


Finally together!  I had all the bolts sorted and ready to go so it went real well.  Definitely not something you want to stop in the middle of.


I’m sure you guys all know this but you want to make sure you have this cable clamp on before you put the engine in the frame.  You can’t remove this bolt when the engine is in the frame.  Don’t ask me how I know.


Mark B
1969 CB750 sandcast #97 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1969 CB750 sandcaxt #576 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1553 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1990 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #5383 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1970 CB750 K0 restored - Sold
2010 H-D Tri Glide Ultra Classic (Huh?)


Steve Swan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 2705
    • View Profile
    • cb750sandcastonly.com
"Im sure you guys all know this but you want to make sure you have this cable clamp on before you put the engine in the frame.  You can’t remove this bolt when the engine is in the frame.  Don’t ask me how I know."

heh, heh.  don't ask me how i know either !!!!  yup.  bummer when i realized that bolt wouldn't come out to get that little aluminum strap in there !!!!

Beautiful work, Mark !

Thanks for sharing with us !!!!




markb

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1249
    • View Profile
Thanks guys.
Here’s a very early distinction.  According to the early parts books the engines up to 219 had an M8 x 80mm bolt at this location on the back of the case.


From engine 220 the bolt was change to a special M10 x 82mm bolt with a flange head.


The early sandcast engine number pads were 11mm wide.  At some point they changed to 19mm.  Notice the square near the number pad.  I’m not sure if that went away with the wider pad or not.


Also the very early cases had no casting dates.

Mark B
1969 CB750 sandcast #97 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1969 CB750 sandcaxt #576 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1553 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1990 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #5383 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1970 CB750 K0 restored - Sold
2010 H-D Tri Glide Ultra Classic (Huh?)


Marcello Tha

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 189
    • View Profile
Congratulations Mark, what a wonderful part of history do you have.

Marcello


hondasan

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 378
    • View Profile
Hard to know when the VIN pad changed. #'s 665 and 1106 have narrow pads, whilst 856 had a wide pad. The small square near the narrow pad appears to be a feature of all of those I have seen, and not present with wider pads. #302 has no casting dates on top case, bot DOES have dates on the underside of the lower case instead.

Chris R.
Chris R.
302/338


markb

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1249
    • View Profile
Congratulations Mark, what a wonderful part of history do you have.
Marcello
Thanks.  Sometimes it doesn't seem like  ;) it but I know I'm lucky to have it.

#302 has no casting dates on top case, bot DOES have dates on the underside of the lower case instead.
Hmmm.  I'll have to check my lower cases.  Thanks Chris.
Mark B
1969 CB750 sandcast #97 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1969 CB750 sandcaxt #576 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1553 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1990 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #5383 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1970 CB750 K0 restored - Sold
2010 H-D Tri Glide Ultra Classic (Huh?)


Marcello Tha

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 189
    • View Profile
Dear Mark;

The pan oil cover is not painted on sandcast.

Marcello