Honda CB750 Sandcast

Mirror Stems

kp · 15 · 4294

kp

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Guys, It is known that early VIN bikes were fitted with 11mm mirror stems. I have asked a number of sellers about these early mirrors and they all have the same answer if memory serves ie: only one 11mm mirror stem is fitted. Has anyone out there an early VIN fitted with 11mm mirror stems and if so is it only the one side or both.
The other question is for those with 11mm stems what is the VIN.
Hope we get ship loads of responses  ;D KP
Yabba Dabba KP


Steve Swan

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My 22 cents worth on this topic and probably going waaaay off topic........

I know Chris R's 302 was fitted w/ one 11mm stem; Chris' 302 was about as unmolested as a bike could be.

Cannot remember what Andy D's 175 had on it, seems 11mm stems.  No doubt Chris R could add to this.

Cannot go by what 232 has.  Late 2005, I purchased an early seat, blinkers and mirrors from the same seller in eastern Iowa.  He alledged these parts were all "take offs" from a 69 CB750 he bought new June 1969.  The condition of the parts would suggest they were "take offs."  The pair of mirrors/stems were same condition, one was a 10mm stem, the other 11mm.  

Just my theory, but I cannot imagine the assembly line (nor anyone else) measuring stem diameters for matching same diameter stems to be fitted to a bike, seems from what we know on this topic, early vins were fitted with 11mm stems........   For that matter, considering the mirrors were packed separately in the crate, not fitted to the crated bike, it's entirely probable mirrors were never fitted to the bike on the line, prior to crating..........

We can only speculate why the mirror manufacturer/supplier made initial prod.runs of 11mm stems, then changed to 10mm stems........  

Considering all parts are manfactured to specifications from a blueprint, I'd guess the manufacturer or/and perhaps Honda knew stems were 11mm and the change to 10mm was deliberate............

Would speculate, when the supply of 11mm stems ran out, 10mm were supplied.  And would further speculate the mirrors were received in batches from the mirror manufacturer, so when mirrors were pulled from their shipping carton, it's probable there was random and different diameter stems supplied to any given machine, i am guessing more likely on later vins, whereas early vins could have had both 11mm stems.

The more i think about this, makes no sense mirrors would be fitted on the assembly line, then removed, to be wrapped in a parcel for crating to export.  

More of my neurons are flashing.......  NOW taking a look at the 11 page "CB750 Set-Up and Pre-Delivery Service Manual." (print date 69.6)

Contained in the "CB750 Set-Up and Pre-Delivery Service Manual," (print date 69.6)pictures and instructions in this manual clearly indicate what parts were NOT on the bike and were contained in a "parts carton (to be opened) to check the parts to make sure there are no missing parts or damage," after carton was removed from the opened crate.  Those parts being, listed and numbered in the manual, "1.  left front winker lamp, 2.  tail/stop light assembly, 3.  battery, 4.  front fender, 5.  seat, 6.  gear change pedal, 7.  clutch adjusting cover, 8.  bolts and nuts, 9.  foot rest, 10.  rear view mirrors, step rubbers, Owner's manual, 11.  front hose clip and 12.  touch up paint."  The picture of these parts taken from the crate clearly show all these parts (except mirrors) including two (mirror sized) boxes in plastic wrapping labled "CB750, attatchments, Honda."  

Based on these pictures and instructions contained in this pre-delivery/set-up manual, the theory could hold up mirrors were not fitted on the assembly line, in preparation for crating/shipping the bike.  Seems even more likely mirrors (already individually boxed and never unboxed by Honda) were randonly and put in the "parts carton" to be sent along with the crated motorcycle.  

An interesting aside, pictures and instructions in the manual reveal the bike being uncrated.  Crated machines did not have handlebars fitted nor master cylinder fitted to handlebar.  The gas tank, front wheel and brake caliper were not fitted as well as control cables not attatched to handlebar controls.

WHAT IF an uncrated sandcast exists...........  ;D


hondasan

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#302 came with just one mirror, an 11mm one. Hence have no way of knowing what the "other" one might have been. Sorry, can't add more!

Cheers - Chris
Chris R.
302/338


kmb69

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An interesting aside, pictures and instructions in the manual reveal the bike being uncrated.  Crated machines did not have handlebars fitted nor master cylinder fitted to handlebar.  The gas tank, front wheel and brake caliper were not fitted as well as control cables not attatched to handlebar controls.

It has been a very long time, my memory is foggy, but every 750 I uncrated and assembled, including the very first SC, the tanks were mounted and had to be removed for rinsing the preservative from inside, adjusting the valves, cam chain, and synching the carbs. They even had the fuel lines connected. They sprayed some kind of grey colored stuff inside to prevent rust. 100% positive on this.

99% sure I remember the calipers were mounted as well and had a wooden spacer held between the pads with rubber bands. Brake fluid lines were all connected and mostly filled. One learned quickly to leave the spacer in place until ready to mount the front wheel else some prankster in the shop would squeeze the master closing the caliper shut just for fun.

Sorry, no info on the mirror stems tonight. Will check the mirrors on 244 tomorrow if I remember.


Steve Swan

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I certainly cannot nor would be foolish to argue with first hand experience.  

What I wrote was my observations based on the eight different pics with instructions for each picture in the dealer pre-delivery/set up manual, showing each bare fork leg wrapped in protective covering with the unattatched caliper in place on the brake disc, with a heavy cord tying the caliper to the brake disc/front wheel assembly, not mounted on the LH fork.  The hose goes straight down and then folded back with the steel line up and back.

The wrapped unattatched front wheel is clearly shown strapped against the LH side of the bike, against the LH fork ear (with LH blinker off) and extending back to the rear section of the engine.  

Other pictures show the front wheel with caliper tied to disc being removed as a unit from the straps and brought down and forward, readied for mounting to the fork legs.

There is what appears to be a full dimension 2x4 board bolted to a steel "strap" which is held by four bolts to the upper triple clamp.  This 2x4 board shows being held to the "strap" by nuts over flat square steel plates, the front wheel strapped to bike and held in place by a another board attatched to the 2x4.  

Another picture shows the bike with this 2x4 board attatched to upper triple clamp, the three upper frame tubes exposed with the gas tank not in place.  There are no other pics revealing where the tank could be in the crate.

Certainly, we are looking forward to hearing about the diameter of your mirror stems.


kmb69

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These pictures may have been taken when they were trying to work out the kinks. Never saw one come in exactly per your description. The bikes were placed somewhat at an angle in the crate to make room for the front wheel, handlebars, battery, and stuff which was packaged seperately and tied to the crate - not the bike. Caliper came mounted and was wrapped in foam type material along with the fork lowers. There was a 2x4 with the bracket as described bolted to the upper fork crown and secured at each end to the sides of the crate. The bolts used for securing the bike in the crate were plain cheap steel and were discarded upon removal. Tanks were definitely installed and wrapped on top with the same foam type material and was taped on the sides to the bottom of tank. Side covers and sometimes the rear fender got the same foam wrapping. The bikes appeared to have been completely assembled then disassembled as necessary for crating. Occasionally you could see "wrench" marks on the bolts and nuts that I would guess came from the disassembly. Gotta remember this was their first disc brake and they had to figure out how to handle it. As we know, they were making lots of changes almost daily. Probably had to get the setup instructions in the mail ahead of bike arrivals. Back in the day, all we ever read regarding the setup was valve tappet clearance specs and how much oil does it take. The rest of it was pretty much SOP. And yes, the gap on the fork bottom caps and handlebar caps goes toward the rear.

Can you tell if the bike in the pictures is a prototype or a production model?

Sorry KP for hijack of the 11mm Stem thread. Will check mine tonight.


Steve Swan

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Good stuff !  ;D

The pics of the manual are very clearly of an early production machine.  In fact one pic shows the exposed LH steering head WITH the first 6/7 vin digits.  The vin is CB750-100001?  So the frame vin APPEARS to be a 2-digit, somewhere between 11 & 19......

yes, sorry to hi-jack the mirror stem thread.

Please get back to us with your mirror stem diameters.

kmb69, what's your name  ?


kmb69

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Sorry to be so long getting back. Been REALLY busy with real work.

244/251 has 11mm stems on both mirrors.

Steve, PM sent.



kp

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Sorry to be so long getting back. Been REALLY busy with real work.

244/251 has 11mm stems on both mirrors.

Steve, PM sent.


Sell me those mirrors  ........................ please  :-* :'(
Yabba Dabba KP



markb

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If we're lucky, maybe "somebody" will make up a few..............  ??? ;D ??? ;D ???
Yes, as you know, I have been looking in to making repro 11mm stems.  I'll probably ask this in a separate thread too but as long as it's out here, who would be interested in getting a set?  I started looking into this last spring (for you northern hemisphere inhabitants) but things have been way too busy this summer.  I hope to get back into it within the next month and if it looks like it's feasible I'd like to get them made up over the winter.  I realize cost will be a factor but the more wanted the cheaper they will be.  It looks like at least one or both stems being 11mm went up to at least VIN 302.
Mark B
1969 CB750 sandcast #97 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1969 CB750 sandcaxt #576 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1553 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1990 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #5383 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1970 CB750 K0 restored - Sold
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kp

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Mark has my order. A double bacon and cheese McMirror, hold the fries   ;D
Yabba Dabba KP


cb7504

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Mark: One set with a possibility of a second set. Marty