questions on un-doing frame mods

[cb7504]

sandydogg:
                Welcome it is always good to have new faces in the crowd, enjoy the web site. There is allot of good information here as well as quite a few members who have very good, to excellent knowledge of the early CB750 sand cast and K0 motorcycles. By the way nice snag on finding an early vin-ed sand cast motorcycle. You have a good start with having quite a few correct hard to find parts that are unique to early vin-ed sand cast motorcycles. Most of them having already been pointed out by other members. The rear rim your asking about is not correct for your early vin-ed bike. You need a two hole hub and a rolled lipped rim. You will also need pretty much a complete front end for a start. Lucky for you that most of the items you need are available on the CB750K0 model. Looks like you won yourself a CB750K0 frame. Enjoy the project and have fun. Marty K.     

[sandydogg]

thanks marty,

i will probably use the k2 front end and both wheels that i already have to make the platform a roller. it will give me time to clean up the front wheel, and find a correct rear rim to lace on my hub. after the welding, my frame/swingarm/center stand/battery box can go to the paint shop whilst i fart around with the motor and carb bank.

thanks for the info!!

regards, john

[vnz00]

Hi John,
Just wondering if I could pls ask a favour.
I just bought a round oil filter cover. There seems to have been varying finishes on them.
Any chance you could take some close ups of the cover you have and post them up?
Seems to be that early ones were satin polished to take off the rough cast finish, then clear coated like the engine covers.

I suspect that this practice tapered off a bit, or varied as it was a manual process.  The forum is a little short on info of photos of them.  Would be great if you could provide photos to help.

Also, does it look clear coated at all?

Thanks, Steven.

[vnz00]

Also regarding the rear shock upper mount brackets. These are definitely longer on the K0. Just checked after my ride today.

Sandcast gussets are about 5" long, and straight. The rear of the gusset finishes before the frame loop which holds the rear inner and outer fender together.

The K0 gussets are much longer and are radiused. They finish after the frame loop.

Hope this clears this up. I'm pretty sure this frame mod happened at the end of the sandcasts but not 100% sure.  I might be able to post pics.

Regards,
Steven

[hondasan]

The change to rear shock upper mounting gussets occurred some way into K0 production, but not sure when. I had a"K0" (1015143) some years ago which had been welded both sides of the frame between the end of the gussetts and the rear seat loop where the tubes had fractured, caused by carrying overweight rear carrier (and/or passenger?!!!!). Honda obviously recognised the inherent frame weakness during the K0 run at some so far unknown VIN, and lengthened the gussets to strengthen the frame in this region. Seems there were at least 10,000 suitable frames made which could be used for the repair. Good luck with it.
- Chris R.

[sandydogg]

hi steven,

yes will post some pics soon, some of the new kitchen appliances arrived friday, been quite busy. no long weekend for me. i may have to roll the sandy out into the sun tommow or the next day to check the finish, shops lights are hard to tell by. we are having another heat wave it seems and i put a split system ptac air conditoner in my shop this year  don't open the door much when it's so hot. hoping for some fall days soon. in the 90's and super humid today. long summer!

thanks for the heads up chris. if someone can post some pics maybe my welder can do something about the gussets. the frame has already been butchered badly, and by buying this bike i saved it from the scrap heap, so if it's not 100% correct and perfect, well it's better than getting melted down into a moped  the damage has been done to this bike. i just don't think it will ever be 100%. it's too late to be an original. all i can do is make it complete and running again. i have already pretty much decided i will use some non-correct things and some re-pop things. and i can always go back later and easily add correct shocks and mirrors and stuff as budget permits. if i try and return it exactly it will take forever. what i will do is use 100% of the original parts i have, and do stuff like make gussets "appear" correct if it can be done.

cheers, john

[sandydogg]

ok guys and girls,

i am getting to the age where a digital camera and wide screen laptop work a lot better than my k-mart reading glasses  

first off... WHO THE &8@% USED THE ?@*^!@%$# CRESCENT WRENCH TO CHANGE THE *%!@?)(%$$@ OIL BACK IN THE DAY???  ever heard of a six point socket??? oh well probably back in like '71 when NO ONE had a metric six point socket. well that sux. never saw it until it was on the wide screen.

hey that gives me an idea... man my eyes aren't getting any better... crap i can probably duct tape some shocks and fenders to this thing... in a couple more years i won't even be able to SEE the difference...  

well i tried to show what my crappy eyes can see in real life, NO WAY is the oil filter cover the same as the side covers. whilst the motor side covers have (i think!!) a satin rubbed finish and some kind of clear coat, i would say the filter cover is painted grey. i can see much clearer on the wide screen some definate chips in the paint from road dust. remember this bike only had 8900 miles on it. there is not MUCH for chips but definately there. looks to me at least, to be a perfect match for the lower motor case, the top is greasy.

i will document it some day and figure out how to post the pictures here and not on photobucket, just in case. before i pull the filter cover, i figured i would spray the entire motor with panther piss, wave magic chicken feathers over the bolt for a few hours, distracting the cover bolt demons long enuf to get the thing off without it seizing. maybe try soaking the bolt in some sake... that always loosens me up quite a bit hehe... oh man fall will be here soon, what a great time to drink some... if you have never had sake then you are missing a real treat! i found a sake carafe and two little cups at the asian market for like $10 a few years ago, can't remember the name brand of the sake but the local grocery store has it for maybe $15 a bottle... fill the carafe and microwave for maybe 40 seconds (ok maybe not proper but easy) and you have one of the best wines ever. have to have a few cups with old 1767 when it cools down. the best drink EVER for a chilly evening. dang good stuff the japanese have come up with!!   never checked but they have probably been making it for thousands of years... man one thing when you travel the world it's frickin' amazing how much older the history is in other parts of the world. i mean, for us in usa "ancient" history is some old stinky dried up indian moccasin that is 200 years old (and please, no offense to native americans, or even stinky old moccasins for that matter) i mean, the stuff just ISN'T that old. but hoooo boy take a canal tour in amsterdam and you are passing churches and buildings that are well over 1000 years old. never been to asia (yet!!! ) but even a way deeper older history. what a neat place. what an amazing world with so many diverse things. anyways i guess i have wandered off subject. see ya.

cheers, john

[Steve Swan]

John, it's easy enough to upload pics from your own file/library/"my pictures"  w/o going to the trouble of photo bucket.  If i can upload pics to the discussion board from my pictures, anybody can.  It's true.  Ask KP or Wayne.

i'm so envious of that thin lip alt.cover, i need to put a bib on.

[kp]

Yeah, Mr Swan makes you believe he is challenged but in fact he is a very bright boy and quick on the uptake let me tell you

[sandydogg]

John, it's easy enough to upload pics from your own file/library/"my pictures"  w/o going to the trouble of photo bucket.  If i can upload pics to the discussion board from my pictures, anybody can.  It's true.  Ask KP or Wayne.

i'm so envious of that thin lip alt.cover, i need to put a bib on.

ok steve, i will get it figured out soon.

and thanks... it's nice to know something on this old girl is so valueable.

ok... i need to start looking ahead, and i need some advice here. please!! i have 3 sets of k2 forks. 2 sets have longer "chopper" tubes. the other set looks dingy and dull but just cosmetics, they look to be very original and in good shape for rebuilding. i am having trouble finding any info on forks. i see on the fiches that there are two different models for k0... assuming early and late? the "late" numbers match the k2 so how correct are k2 forks to use??

i have a really clean k2 top bridge i think i will use, i just can't see spending $500 at this point for the narrow nose one. is the triple clamp/steering stem the same for sand cast and k2? i have a different k2 with a nice lower clamp.

trying to think what all i need to get the repaired frame back to rolling condition. i am going to need some k0 fork ears of course. been thinking of the yamiya set of gold tins. question: has anyone placed a large order with yamiya?? any discount on it?? looking at the repop tins for $2k, the repop seat for $1k, and the repop exhaust for another $2k +. seems with a $5k+ order maybe there would be a discount. just curious what past experiences have brought. if i piece together the tins, seat, and pipes it's going to take way long. i don't mind dumping some money into the proper repop stuff. any other good options besides yamiya? i know i am asking for all your secrets, haha... i just want to have a game plan before i get in deep. heck with repop fenders and stuff it will probably be over $7k.

so... with frame repairs and replacing all the missing stuff i would think i will be in well over $10k in no time. what the heck is this thing worth?? i am not doing it for profit, it's much more a passion to see it as original as i can make it. but in the past i have dumped $$ into a bike and come out way in the red. it was on a much smaller scale. makes me a little nervous to tie up a lot of $$ and be in the red when done. would like to consider this bike as an asset (although it will probably never be sold) and figuring out the value of these things seems nearly impossible. would it be safe to assume it will be worth $15k when done and running? also have to think of a number for insurance down the road.

cheers, john

[sandydogg]

main missing pieces, advice is welcome!!

1-- full set of tins

2-- seat

3-- exhaust

4-- rear rolled rim and spoke set

5-- fenders

6-- forks

7-- triple clamps

8-- turn signals

9-- mirrors

10-- petcock/cap

thanks in advance for any tips!!

[sandydogg]

man i'm having a hard time deciding what to do. afraid of dumping too much $$ on high end repop stuff. it's so hard to research what these bikes are worth. i think i might be better off waiting for a complete k0 parts bike. might have to get this thing to a roller state and hold off until one is found. feeling kind of uneasy about putting too much $$ into her. the yamiya stuff sure looks nice but dang he sure is proud of it. don't get very many parts for $7k, do you? oh well, haven't even began to tear 1767 down yet. anybody have a clean k0 parts bike in the $300 range? oh you need to be within maybe 400 miles or so hehe  anyways this project isn't even started yet and i'm already getting a headache... thinking now of maybe taking the frame repairs first and slowly collecting what all i need. an any advice on k2 compatability would be much appreciated. and is there any option other than the $2k+ repop pipes? i have a set of k2's with some rust holes, i have no idea if they can be restored. i already know they aren't correct and all. i'm just really feeling uneasy about this thing becoming a money pit. it's just missing sooooo many key components. the last thing i want to do is roll it back into a dark corner and let it sit for years. oh well anyways i better get to work. trying to make some room so i can begin 1767's tear down in the next couple weeks. cheers.

[Steve Swan]

First, i'd use what, any and all parts you have to get the thing running and on the road.  Screw correctness.  Then, decide if it's a keeper for you.  Or, not.  If the bike has no personal value and you're only looking at it from a dollars and cents standpoint, then i'd be a bit more careful what i'd drop in it.  Pristine correct restoration, should be worth minimum $22.5k  If you piece it together and with non "K0" parts and expect to make a big profit..... probably not.  If you piece it together with non "K0" parts to ride and enhjoy and snag a "K0" donor bike when one turns up at a good price, that's a good plan for making a reasonalbly correct restoration.  At least that's my opinion. 

If it's a keeper, then keep your eye open for a "K0" donor.  They are out there.   There's one waiting for you. 

[sandydogg]

thanks steve... i have $7k to drop on the tins and stuff if i want to... the numbers were making me nervous a bit. just from an investment view. i mean... i have two little kids, got remarried later in life. if sumthin' happened to the old dogg... well i would want to think that i would leave some assets for them to LIVE on that a pile of pretty TINS and such that are worth 50 cents on the dollar.

i'm not flipping the bike. i was actually thinking of the anamosa iowa national motorcycle museum, i don't think they have a sand cast. i was thinking of a 10 year loan or something. it's certainly not going to be a rider. i have plenty of modern bikes to ride on the cheap. it's totally being done as a prized possession that should be admired.

mr. swan... let me ask you this directly. i am going to fully doc the resto, just to be clear. i have the bike in pristine condition. you want to add it to your collection. would you pay the full value? remember, the frame is NOT 100% original. it has been cut and welded. THAT is what worries me the most. the repaired frame. is the bike now worth $12k?

anyways thanks for the advice, i think i will wait on the tins and such. would have been real nice to put the ears on now. i have never cared to work on the cb750 forks, royal pita imho.i love the way they look but hate to take the ears on and off. was really trying to think ahead on stuff like that. will probably just keep an eye out for a k0 donor. hope to get it running soon though.  having the tin set would be really nice (btw i think the sand cast was never gold, but i sure like the look) and figure the yamiya's were the way to go. do they detract from the value though?? over original and oem parts??

cheers, john

[vnz00]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Honda-CB750-K0-Refreshed-Engine-Beautiful-Unrestored-Chassis-/150891871394?forcev4exp=true#ht_4142wt_948

John, something like this would be ideal, rather than spending lots of money on Repop parts.

Even a close to correct, complete sandcast is worth decent $.  A lot of this stuff is in decent original condition, and being early K0, shares a lot of the things which buyers of an original sandcast look for.

Decent chrome and original paint, solid parts which aren't scrap, all combine to make a nice original bike, which is easier to sell than a basket case.  Then, as funds allow, it canbe restored bit by bit, and you know it is worth your time and effort as it will have its value at the end.

A good original bike might not pull as much as a restored one, but it is what a lot of restorers want so they know exactly what they are buying.  Big pluses for you are the early hard to find stuff you have, making it worth that extra bit.

The parts not used would recover alot of your expense when ebayed. 

Downside- its not cheap to spend it all upfront like this. But it would be good as you are not butchering an original bike, you already have a K0 frame closer suited to that engine which could allow you to almost build up another complete K0 to sell off with the non orig parts which came with yours.  Or you could sell it all off as parts and you may make more money this way.

You also don't have to wait hoping the parts bone along at the right price down the track.

Thanks for the oil filter pics and description- I posted the pics up on the oil filter thread I have been contributing too.

Regards,
Steven