Steve's #658 UPDATE

[Tango911]

I picked up this bike last week from the 2nd owner who had torn the bike down to restore.  Not sure he had ever restored a bike before as he did not baggie or label anything.  He purchased about $3,000.00 worth of new honda parts still in their respective bags and a couple aftermarket parts (not sure how many are correct for this bike).  From the info I have, this bike seems to have been purchased new by a member here (Kleis), or maybe he's not a member but is listed in the vin directory.   I have no clue what I will do with this bike until I take a full inventory and find out whats missing.  From what i have heard the engine failed early on and Honda replaced it with a factory non vinned sandcast engine. Most of the high dollar parts seem to be there but there are some questions.  

1. The pipes are none stamped but one is different then the other three.  Someone mentioned on facebook that the three are Lotus root???
2. The tank although it looks like its a wrinkle has been cut open from the bottom and re welded.  Doesnt seem like a good thing
3. Does the non vin engine lessen the value of the bike?
4. The engine is locked up but the transmission shifts through all the gears well.  I would imagine after 89k it needs re built.

Thats for starters guys, Ill let you look at the pictures and see what you have to say.  Thanks again for adding me to the group!!

Pictures:   http://s15.photobucket.com/user/Tango911/slideshow/SANDCAST

[Erling]

A non number sand cast engine has it not got a casting date on it?

[kp]

Hi Steve, Thanks for the picture summary. You have your work cut out but that's a good base for a restoration. Yep, the unstamped cases will lessen the value but by what amount is a guess. A fully restored early VIN bike will pull in excess of $30k all day and every day so the question really is academic when we talk of these amounts. The positive is the unstamped cases are sandcast as opposed to the later diecast. These are my thoughts and others may have further comment. KP

[UK Pete]

Are Honda number stamp fonts unique, someone might have the correct stamps then you could make them perfect
Pete

[Tango911]

Once I'm moved into my new shop I will get more detailed into each part starting with the big pieces and working my way down.

[chrisnoel]

Not sure stamping numbers on an un-numbered set is the way to go.   They are obviously replacement cases and may have some later differences than the very early cases that would be correct for your sandcast.  They will have date codes on the back that will date them to when they were produced and verify that the top and bottom are a matched set.  Placing numbers on them that are earlier than the production date would really raise a red flag.  

Not that I've never thought of doing something like this.  I just realize that once it's done you can't un do it.  

The value of an un-stamped set of sandcast cases is a bit less than ones with a vin on them.  The value of your sandcast is considerably higher though as you are in the three digit vin club.  

One of your baffles is definitely later/non lotus root.  Compare the height of the external seams on the mufflers and internal supporting to verify that one of the mufflers is in fact non lotus root as well.  I'd wager it is but I'd also check. 

[Tango911]

good thoughts,   i wont be stamping the engine. i thinks its rare and cool just like it is.   Ill check the pipes,  hopefully they are all lotus and i just need the baffle.  Thanks for the input!

[ashimotok0]

Are Honda number stamp fonts unique, someone might have the correct stamps then you could make them perfect
Pete

Yes I think the fonts are unique to Honda Pete like the 'droopy pear'.. as Vic World calls it,  '9' character. I have deliberated long and hard as to whether I should stamp the original engine No. into my unstamped K0 diecast cases, even looked at close no. replacement stamped ones but the cases I am pretty sure have been with my bike from very early on and really are part of it's UK history. I wouldn't really like a seller to sell me a bike with non original number cases without declaring they had been changed. Changing cases to the 'correct number range' seems to be cheating  a bit to me. I know it adds to value but I am in it as a hobby to keep me sane, not the money.

BTW anyone know how you can  date identify replacement cases?

Cheers .. AshD

[UK Pete]

Ash my K0 cases were cast and date coded on the 26/9/69 not sure if all cases are date stamped or not

[Tango911]

got a pic of what it looked like before it was torn down.  How bout them dirt bike bars lol

[Tango911]

finally finished my shop,   several customers ahead of the Sandcast but hope to start it soon.   Ill have tons of questions. One being  whats the opinion of paint vs powder coating for the frame and other black parts.  Normally on a cb750 build I powder coat all the black parts, polish and clean all the aluminum and paint the skins.   I guess really what im asking is, Does powder coating the sandcast hurt the value?

[Sam]

No powder coating, it will lower the value. My suggestion is to use correct paint, anodizing, zinc and chrome for your bike. Incorrect finishes are a no-no.

[Marcello Tha]

90% gloss is recommended.

Marcello

[Tango911]

thanks for the advice.     I finally finished my new shop and Im all moved in. I have a few projects to finish up as well as a few customer bikes to work on.  Then ill be working on the Sandcast.   Stay tuned


Steve

[Tango911]

i have a bucket of new parts still in the bag i have to go through that the PO bought for the bike.  I would imagine most are not sandcast.  Is there an easy way to compare the numbers?