Honda CB750 Sandcast

Oil Pan, Oil Filter Cover - Painted?

vnz00 · 27 · 13555

vnz00

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Hi Guys,
Just painting my engine prior to assembly.

I have painted my cases, matching the colour to the inside of the starter motor recess. It is really quite bright- only slightly less shiny than vapor blasted aluminium.

Couple of questions:
Is the oil pan also painted, or is it natural cast finish. I'm guessing natural.
The oil filter cover (die cast, finned, no inner supports), I'm guessing isn't painted.
Head and barrels- are these a slightly darker silver than the cases?
Cam chain tensioner housing - I don't believe this is painted.
Grey epoxy sealant near oil line bosses- not painted?

Thanks guys!
Steven.


Wayne

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Steven
Mark B's restoration thread over at SOHC4 should answer almost all of your questions. I'm using it as my bible!

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=64283.0
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markb

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Wayne,
I'm flattered by your loyalty. 
Steven,
Those were conclusions that came about from observations on the bikes I have and reading as much as I could.  Others may have other opinions.  But to summarize what I think is correct, the cases, finned oil filter cover, cam chain tension housing, cylinders and head and breather cover all painted the same color.  The oil pan, no paint.  I also believe the smooth oil filter cover had the same finish as the other polished (brushed) covers.  As far as the grey epoxy (I always thought is was something like JB Weld to repair flaws in that area and other areas too) I just painted over it.  Anyone else have opinions I would like to hear them too.  I'll be painting the same parts on #97 soon.
Mark 
Mark B
1969 CB750 sandcast #97 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1969 CB750 sandcaxt #576 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1553 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1990 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #5383 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1970 CB750 K0 restored - Sold
2010 H-D Tri Glide Ultra Classic (Huh?)


Steve Swan

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My two cents worth, all the breather covers i've seen clearly have a gloss painted finish, silvery grey color, which appears (to me) very different than the aluminum color on cases. The broken set of sandcast cases (accompanying 232) came with early engine parts (including sandcast cam chain tensioner and a painted gloss silver grey breather cover.)  The sandcast cam tensioner appears to have an aluminum finish covering the metal, appearing same as cases.  The one early finned oil cover I've seen, with no internal webbing, *appeared* to have a painted surface, the coating of the paint was thick, not as bright aluminum color, compared to the thin painted coating seen on the cases.  I'm not sure what to say about the head and the cylinder block.  My personal belief on early heads/cyls, based on not having the best early examples to look at, these parts were painted same as cases, but i would hazard to say there was possibly a thicker layer of paint on the upper surface of top fin of head, next to the cam cover.  Later (not sandcast, perhaps later K0 and certainly K1) heads/cyls, my observation,used  another type of coating, a very thick coating that seemed "rubberized," would peel, could actually pull off, "stretchy," in consistency and when subjected to high pressure cold be peeled off in loose areas, half to 1 inch at a time.  I'm also going to hazard the guess, as production numbers advanced, the finishes used on these engines was also a more refined and automated process.  What i am saying, is the early and very early bikes engine finishes may have been applied differently, using different application methods and materials, compared to later bikes, even perhaps, the later sandcasts....  Deciding what an original engine finish may have looked like for a particular Evin range, particularly in early production might be a challenge to say, finishes were "exactly" like this.....?  I would not be surprised to hear varying observations.


vnz00

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Hi Guys, thanks for the responses. Now I have had a closer look, I thought I'd chime in with what I found and ended up doing.

Head, barrel and engine cases all appeared to be painted the bright aluminum color. I observed and color tested a patch, and bright alu is what it is (almost as bright as fresh cast alu color).

The oil pan I noticed wasn't painted- I had it vapor blasted and it is an as cast aluminum look.

The finned, non-internally ribbed oil filter cover is definitely painted.  It is however a matt finish aluminum color.  I also noticed (also on a 2nd similar cover I have from another sandcast) that the sides of the oil filter cover appear to have been linished after being painted. Subsequently the sides are polished bare alu where the finishing was done with some residue of paint in recesses. I'm curious if anyone else can confirm?

The breather cover and cam chain tensioner housing are a gloss finish alu color. I.e. Same shade as the oil filter cover but a gloss finish. Strange but true. My tens housing was diecast however, not sc as per steves.  I have a NOS tensioner housing which is as cast and not painted, so maybe later housings were not painted.

The front brake caliper and arm appear to be a similar colour matt finish alu to the oil filter housing. It's original color you can see clearly on the arm once you remove the caliper.

So I will say that most of my observations coincide with Steve Swan. I managed to find 3 matching silver paints, so I'll post pics of b4 and after one day soon.

I was blown away by how bright the alu color is on the cases as it seems the only place which still had some color was in the starter motor recess. Defn painted however, and the color I used matched what I found.

Welcome any comment for/opposed to my findings here. Oh and BTW, I left the epoxy plugs unpainted ;)

Thanks,
Steven V.


markb

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After my last post I looked at my finned oil filter cover and breather cover and I'm tending to agree with Steve and Steven.  I would be interested in knowing what the paint spec is.  For now I have only painted the cases, cylinders and head the aluminum color.
Mark
Mark B
1969 CB750 sandcast #97 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1969 CB750 sandcaxt #576 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1553 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1990 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #5383 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1970 CB750 K0 restored - Sold
2010 H-D Tri Glide Ultra Classic (Huh?)


Steve Swan

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Steven, i'm glad you brought up that linished finish on the sides of the finned o.f. cover.  i have seen that bare aluminum on the sides of these covers.


markb

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I haven't seen that term before, what is linished?
Mark B
1969 CB750 sandcast #97 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1969 CB750 sandcaxt #576 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1553 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1990 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #5383 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1970 CB750 K0 restored - Sold
2010 H-D Tri Glide Ultra Classic (Huh?)


Steve Swan

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Per Wikipedia - Linish is an engineering term that refers to the process of using grinding or belt sanding techniques to improve the flatness of a surface. The flatness may be two-dimensional, i.e. with the view of achieving a flat plate, or one-dimensional, e.g. with the view of achieving a perfectly cylindrical shape. The machine that does this may be called a linisher or a linish grinder. The technique may also be used, with finer grades of grindstone or sanding belt, to polish a surface.

Could not find the word in the dictionary.

I believe linishing is an older machine operation, from the turn of the 1900's or even earlier.  My good friend, who was a machinist and motorcycle man from the 20's through the 80's used that term.

Would be good to hear Keith's thoughts on the term linishing.

In any event, after reading Steven's post, i DO remember seeing what appeared to be factory created sanding/grinding markings on some of those o.f. filter covers.  (and thinking to myself, "That's odd.")


kp

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Linishing is a commonly used term here in Oz, at least by us old farts  ;D
Yabba Dabba KP


kmb69

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Honest to God, I have never heard the term before and I have been a machinist and/or in the machining business since 1974. Learn something new every day! I guess we have always used more specific terms such as grinding, lapping, and polishing. We do use belt sanders from time to time for loose tolerance deburring or cleaning of rough parts. Don't normally deal much with the latter. Most of our parts are very complex, high precision, exotic material stuff.

About the oil pan. I think I have 3 versions of SC oil pans - as cast, clear coated, and painted. Pretty sure all of them are stock Honda stuff. Would have to dig them out to be sure but I think I recall 1 NOS, as cast, and 1 NOS, clear coated. A couple of my unrestored SC's appear to have painted pans.

Keith


kp

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There are at least 2 different casting of K0 oil pans. One has a casting square on the underside middle where original sandcast seem not to have this casting feature. I have an unpainted and also have seen the clear painted type
Yabba Dabba KP


markb

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Honest to God, I have never heard the term before and I have been a machinist and/or in the machining business since 1974.
I've been a an engineer for about the same time and a machinist before that too.  Thanks Keith, I'm glad I'm not the only one who hadn't heard that term.

So does anyone have any idea what VIN's had unpainted pans?  My #97 sure looks to be unpainted but it was so crusty it's hard to know for sure.
Mark B
1969 CB750 sandcast #97 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1969 CB750 sandcaxt #576 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1553 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1990 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #5383 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1970 CB750 K0 restored - Sold
2010 H-D Tri Glide Ultra Classic (Huh?)



hondasan

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I presume KPis observations were actually about sandcast rather than K0 pans, and if so I agree in full.

As to "linishing" -  a common term here in the Uk. In fact at work we have a "linisher", this being a floor mounted continuous abrasive belt machine used for clean up on flat metal surfaces, taking burrs off edges / corners, etc.

cheers - Chris R.
Chris R.
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